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Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

nytimes.com

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Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#91

Post by WCSTombs »

SoftTalker wrote: post #51
bugbull wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were certainly integral solving validators online when I took calculus in high school. At some point I gave up and just used that, because “the money is in web application development, I don’t need that calculus stuff”. Big regret. Edit: For reference, the regret came when I tried to do some RF related projects on the side. Those projects would likely have gone somewhere if I put some effort into even the basic…

I have never needed calculus since leaving university, nearly 40 year ago. If you're not in hard engineering, you probably won't (and if you are, you'll get to use all the computer assisting tools you want).

If you overly rely on the computer assistance during the learning stage, there are fundamental principles you won't get a firm grasp on, and then you'll be at a disadvantage if you need it later. As someone who did use calculus after school, I'm glad I actually learned the subject.

You're right that most people don't need to know calculus in their lives, but to my knowledge calculus also isn't generally required to get through college/university for most people, so it's fair to assume that the people in the course are there because they need or want to learn it. When I was a TA for calculus, most of my students were pre-med, engineers, or in other sciences.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#92

Post by jhbadger »

wyre wrote: post #75
dayyan wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Isn’t real” isn’t a rebuttal. It’s just refusing to think.

It's a rebuttal in the same way that saying the Vulcans in Star Trek use AI in their classrooms. Star Trek is a fictional story in a fictional universe that doesn't have to follow the laws and rules of science, society, reality, etc for the sake of telling a story that fans will want to follow.

I think you miss the point of Star Trek, it, even more than most SF, isn't "really" about the future fictional or otherwise -- it is using the tropes of SF to make commentary on our society through analogy. That being said, I'm not sure the OP recognizes that Vulcans aren't entirely presented positively on the show -- they are generally viewed as missing part of life with their lack of emotions.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#93

Post by ridifjfj38 »

pj_mukh wrote: post #37

The dirty secret on NYC schools is that the upper-middle class tends to send their kids to private schools unless they can get their kids into some gifted/talented public schools. The real experimentation on what tools will and will not work is happening there under the watchful eye of wealthy hyper-involved (see: comfy jobs w/ adequate spare time) parents. I don't know what level of digital tools is best for which t…

What if the learning from private schools is to have small class sizes, well paid teachers, and a situation where parents have time and resources to spend their kids? It’s hard to compare public versus private

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#94

Post by UtopiaPunk »

oldsklgdfth wrote: post #29
MattDamonSpace wrote: post #21

Seems premature but then again humans are always a bit skiddish around change Still, not shocking that the DSA stronghold that elected someone like Mamdani is going to be passionate against AI. Will be interesting to watch outcomes diverge over the next few years. If you’re gonna ban stuff, do it at local levels like this so we can see differences play out across many locations/districts.

You bring up politics when this topic is about technology adoption in education. Grew up in Greece and was shocked that calculators are used in high school math. An interesting note: "And teachers will not be able to ask A.I. to grade assignments." This prevents teachers from using it as well, which is an interesting angle.

How is technology adoption in education not political?

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#95

Post by rjrjrjrj »

charcircuit wrote: post #65
Zetaphor wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that a human teacher is equivalent to an LLM is derogatory to the teachers and exaggerating the capabilities of the LLM. I say this as someone who uses these things daily in my work and personal life. Let's not murky the waters with complete falsehoods

LLMs have been better than many teachers I've had in my life. To no fault of the teachers, it's hard to compete with something that has understanding of every subject, is hooked up to the internet, and is given 1:1 time with the person learning at any time of the day, answering promptly.

Confidently pretends to have understanding of every subject but is frequently spectacularly wrong

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#96

Post by pj_mukh »

ridifjfj38 wrote: post #93
pj_mukh wrote: post #37

The dirty secret on NYC schools is that the upper-middle class tends to send their kids to private schools unless they can get their kids into some gifted/talented public schools. The real experimentation on what tools will and will not work is happening there under the watchful eye of wealthy hyper-involved (see: comfy jobs w/ adequate spare time) parents. I don't know what level of digital tools is best for which t…

What if the learning from private schools is to have small class sizes, well paid teachers, and a situation where parents have time and resources to spend their kids? It’s hard to compare public versus private

Yea. This ban's gonna create none of that. Read my other comment in this thread.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#97

Post by lkey »

MattDamonSpace wrote: post #21

Seems premature but then again humans are always a bit skiddish around change Still, not shocking that the DSA stronghold that elected someone like Mamdani is going to be passionate against AI. Will be interesting to watch outcomes diverge over the next few years. If you’re gonna ban stuff, do it at local levels like this so we can see differences play out across many locations/districts.

They will be teaching AI in high school. This ban is only for the lower grades.

Even when they teach it, screen time will be limited to 45 minutes per week.

It's not about 'passion against AI', it's a year waiting period. There isn't much evidence that AI improves student outcomes, and there's more cases showing harm, so the responsible approach is to wait for more information.

Also, they've banned phone use for quite a while now, which I think most people agree is correct in a learning env.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#98

Post by fercircularbuf »

krapp wrote: post #33
dayyan wrote: post #30

I remember a scene in Star Trek, where an AI is used to help teach the little Vulcan kids.

Star Trek isn't real.

Star Trek is a plausible future I'd like to live in. It depends entirely on education, cultural values, and ethics. It's a future worth striving for, real or not.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#99

Post by WCSTombs »

baby_souffle wrote: post #59
mushi_shi wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure that taking shortcuts to information isn't potentially doing more damage to learning?

Being able to access information faster is not really a problem. I don't know anybody that was super upset that the encyclopedia came on a bunch of CD roms instead of bound volumes. Not having the skills to assess the accuracy / validity of the information you accessed at breakneck speed however is going to be the downfall of us all. Ai just made it easier to generate misinformation faster. We were already suffering…

Yeah, it's the speed-running homework and unchecked potential for misinformation that are really problematic. I agree that if it was only a more efficient and accessible repository of information, it wouldn't be nearly as bad, and that's partly what I was getting at in my top-comment (the "may be a version of AI that helps people learn" part).

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#100

Post by OptionOfT »

manquer wrote: post #85
legitster wrote: post #26

Even if you're pro-AI, there's a reason calculators are banned from math classes until a certain point. It seems like a no-brainer to have people learn on hammers before moving them to nailguns. I can't help but think of this Chesterton Quote: "It is, on the contrary, a thing analogous to writing one's own love-letters or blowing one's own nose. These things we want a man to do for himself, even if he does them badly…

> calculators are banned from math classes Not all math classes yes, if your are learning basic arithmetic yes calculators should not be allowed, but if am learning say applied statistics I would be wasting time adding numbers by hand and not learning what I am actually supposed to be taking the course for. A tool is just a tool[1]. Even when it was not allowed, schools would still teach you how to use a calculator c…

You wouldn't be taking applied statistics if you didn't pass basic arithmetic.
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