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True Rate of Unemployment

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351–360 of 377 posts

Re: True Rate of Unemployment

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the vibe I get is that it was better than today for the people who wanted to work hard... The "vibe" you get? You were there? I'd point out that during the Gilded Age, women were largely excluded from the work force, blacks were forced into sharecropping and tenant farming while under threat of racial violence including lynching, Chinese workers were forced into the most dangerous jobs and then punished for…

So you're saying that the mobility was a direct result of oppressing minorities? That's certainly a take. (See, we can both play this stupid game.) At the end of the day most of those downtrodden minorities you think you care about ultimately wound up creating successful ethnic communities, before we adopted, at the behest of people like you, central policy that dismantled them starting in the mid 20th century.

Do you even educate yourself about the things you post about?

Take https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Miners%27_Tax_Act_of_1....

This is an example of the type of law that was passed during your "good vibes" period that was designed to push out non-white labor.

So the point that you don't want to seem to acknowledge: the period of time that you seem to be holding up as an ideal (read: where Americans could work hard and get ahead) was filled with laws and even violence that sought to restrict opportunity for non-whites and women.

This is historical fact, whether you like it or not.

> At the end of the day most of those downtrodden minorities you think you care about ultimately wound up creating successful ethnic communities, before we adopted, at the behest of people like you, central policy that dismantled them starting in the mid 20th century.

What in the world are you on?

But this is the perfect example of America today: you can't have a vigorous debate without somebody resorting to casting aspersions on another's intentions and blaming them for things that happened when they weren't even alive.

Re: True Rate of Unemployment

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying that the mobility was a direct result of oppressing minorities? That's certainly a take. (See, we can both play this stupid game.) At the end of the day most of those downtrodden minorities you think you care about ultimately wound up creating successful ethnic communities, before we adopted, at the behest of people like you, central policy that dismantled them starting in the mid 20th century.

Do you even educate yourself about the things you post about? Take https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Miners%27_Tax_Act_of_1... . This is an example of the type of law that was passed during your "good vibes" period that was designed to push out non-white labor. So the point that you don't want to seem to acknowledge: the period of time that you seem to be holding up as an ideal (read: where Americans could work h…

Unless you think the racism and sexism is a key part of what enabled economic mobility and prosperity for others bitching about beliefs people held in the past that are now considered unfashionable/wrong/a drag on society is whattaboutism at best.

Re: True Rate of Unemployment

#353
post #347

This stuff drives me nuts. Everybody’s like “omg did you know that the unemployment rate doesn’t count people who stopped looking for work?!” Yes, I did know that, from the ten thousand times people said the same thing before you did. I also know it because I can read and BLS is completely up front about how their numbers are calculated. There isn’t even a single official rate. They put out six different numbers that…

> But why does it always have to be framed as, they’re lying to you? the most obvious answer is that the not-included groups are usually not reported, and when general media and politicians repeat the numbers, they are treated as gospel rather than with nuance. sure, you know that the "unemployment" number has little to do with employment at all and its a name just as good as "the orange number" but most people who t…

I suppose that makes sense when "they" is politicians and media. It's just weird that pretty much nobody mentions the other official numbers. Politicians/media tend to talk about "the" number, but then so do people like the organization linked here. It's so rare to see anyone saying, "the" number you read about is pretty limited, there are five other official numbers that may be more informative, here's what they mean.

Re: True Rate of Unemployment

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you even educate yourself about the things you post about? Take https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Miners%27_Tax_Act_of_1... . This is an example of the type of law that was passed during your "good vibes" period that was designed to push out non-white labor. So the point that you don't want to seem to acknowledge: the period of time that you seem to be holding up as an ideal (read: where Americans could work h…

Unless you think the racism and sexism is a key part of what enabled economic mobility and prosperity for others bitching about beliefs people held in the past that are now considered unfashionable/wrong/a drag on society is whattaboutism at best.

[deleted]

Re: True Rate of Unemployment

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you even educate yourself about the things you post about? Take https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Miners%27_Tax_Act_of_1... . This is an example of the type of law that was passed during your "good vibes" period that was designed to push out non-white labor. So the point that you don't want to seem to acknowledge: the period of time that you seem to be holding up as an ideal (read: where Americans could work h…

Unless you think the racism and sexism is a key part of what enabled economic mobility and prosperity for others bitching about beliefs people held in the past that are now considered unfashionable/wrong/a drag on society is whattaboutism at best.

> Unless you think the racism and sexism is a key part of what enabled economic mobility and prosperity for others...

It is an historical fact that women and minorities were excluded and discriminated against in the 1800s, and that this was to the benefit of white men.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/united-states-and-canad...

https://billofrightsinstitute.org/essays/the-chinese-exclusi...

https://www.wyohistory.org/encyclopedia/rock-springs-massacr...

https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/historic-doc...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradwell_v._Illinois

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_Contract_Labor_Law

Instead of concerning yourself with other people and trying to guess their views so that you can criticize them, you should educate yourself.

Re: True Rate of Unemployment

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Full stop"? So you don't want to hear other arguments? The ILO-based statistics differ from what you cited and explicitly "encompasses all persons not employed and who are actively looking for and available for work, regardless of whether they are registered with a regional placement office. " That doesn't match your definition and that's ok.

> The ILO-based statistics differ from what you cited What do the ILO-based statistics have to do with original comment[0] that they are in Switzerland, unemployed, don't collect unemployment, and don't count towards Switzerland's specific-statistics as a result? 0 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49532179

The connection is that www.bfs.admin.ch itself will tell you that there are multiple sources for unemployment statistics in Switzerland, ILO-based being one of them. Picking only the one that supports your argument after being pointed out that there are others indicates unwillingnes to engage in a good faith argument. Since your tone is repeatedly condescending in addition to that, I'll end my engagement in this particular line of discussion.

Re: True Rate of Unemployment

#358
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Then maybe it's time you look up how unemployment statistics are calculated in Switzerland and you will be surprised that you counted into them." Not to criticise, but just to point out that this sentence doesn't quite make sense in English, and it's not immediately apparent what you mean. The sentence has to precisely opposed interpretations.

Oh interesting. What are the interpretations and why?

(Also, why was that question downvoted?)

Re: True Rate of Unemployment

#359
post #15

Similar statistics for Australia: https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/10192-australian-unemploy... It all depends on the definition of "Unemployment". Most governments do not count you as unemployed if you've stopped looking for work, been unemployed for over 6 months, or if you made $25 as an Uber driver for 1 hour's work that month.

Thanks, this is interesting. Folks I've been talking to see a huge hit coming for us. Mining is getting automated (and coal/gas have huge problems). Education is getting hit by AI. Agriculture is good but employs relatively few people. Property is and always has been a zero-sum game that soaks up capital but doesn't return anything. Construction is getting pulled into building data centres for US hyperscalers. We don…

> Property is and always has been a zero-sum game that soaks up capital but doesn't return anything.

Why?

Re: True Rate of Unemployment

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The ILO-based statistics differ from what you cited What do the ILO-based statistics have to do with original comment[0] that they are in Switzerland, unemployed, don't collect unemployment, and don't count towards Switzerland's specific-statistics as a result? 0 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49532179

The connection is that www.bfs.admin.ch itself will tell you that there are multiple sources for unemployment statistics in Switzerland, ILO-based being one of them. Picking only the one that supports your argument after being pointed out that there are others indicates unwillingnes to engage in a good faith argument. Since your tone is repeatedly condescending in addition to that, I'll end my engagement in this part…

> The connection is that www.bfs.admin.ch itself will tell you...

You mean the same exact domain in the first link I gave, which doesn't mention ILO, whatsoever? That `www.bfs.admin.ch`?

> Picking only the one that supports your argument...

It literally supports the argument for the original comment's statement. It's from the official governing body. What are you on about? If your complaint is that it disproves the statement, and they officially use ILO (doubtful but allowing for a comedy of errors) for their own statistics, your argument is with the governing body - not me. Correct?

Speaking of bad faith, why not show a modicum of effort on your part to reference any official documentation that Switzerland DOES use ILO in their own statistics? It comes across as the same specious approach used by vaccine conspiracy theorists, "...just trust me, bro, do your own research, you'll see...".

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