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The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

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Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#61

Post by ecshafer »

phainopepla2 wrote: post #41
ecshafer wrote: post #18

I have seen H1Bs used for basic Java development, Desktop Support, CRM managemetn, Marketing, Project Managers, and all sorts of basic office work. The idea its used for the best and brightest is absurd. When you also count the massive fraud in H1B, people looking for kickbacks, racial preferences, lying on resumes (I once interviewed an H1B with 4 pages on their resume, couldn't answer a single question from what I…

> I have seen H1Bs used for basic Java development, Desktop Support [...] Working in non-FAANG corporate America, these types of roles are the only thing thing I've ever seen H1B hires used for. They've run the gamut from incompetent to quite good, but none have ever been the "best and brightest". It saddens me that the left no longer seems to care about protecting American workers.

There are a lot of office / IT jobs that can be done by anyone with an education. Instead of a team of H1B from TCS doing BI dashboards, why not a bunch of local college kids? You dont even need a CS degree, any business degree student can do that with a couple days of training. Hell an associates degree should be more than enough. Companies used to hire local people, give aptitude tests and place people.

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#62

Post by xnx »

nightpool wrote: post #47
dominotw wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this seems like common retort. hire h1b or else.... we open a role on linkedin for a data engineer for about 6 hrs and we got 500+ applicants and vast majority were indeed qualifed on paper. I am baffled by employers who cant seem to find anyone in the country that doesnt need work authorization. Love to hear what types of roles and where this is happening.

Have you interviewed any of these candidates yet? I doubt that you have 500+ real candidates. My experience in the past 12 months of hiring is that you'll have maybe 10 "qualified on paper" candidates, and 490 AI-generated profiles.

Hard to be too mad at the applicants when a similar percentage of the roles might also be fake.

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#63

Post by jazzpush2 »

valicord wrote: post #11

False dichotomy. An H1B hire who has graduated from a US university and will receive a green card in a few years and become a US citizen after another 5 contributes to "the next generation of US talent" in the same way as John from Chicago.

You present the false dichotomy without qualifying 'the same way'.

Is it in terms of collective taxes paid? Does that include or exclude family? Or is it in terms of money spent in the local economy? Or in terms of money sent abroad to other economies? Maybe it's in more direct terms of contributing to the next generation of talent, like volunteering, coaching, or hosting scholastic events for the community? Or maybe it's an entirely other class of event, like a club exclusively for specific races/citizens of a specific country?

Almost all of my co-workers who were educated in the US but came from abroad send their earnings abroad, were part of 'X Country Citizens' clubs in college, and don't socialize too much outside of their native language. I don't think that's a problem, and it's just anecdotal, but it's certainly not the 'same way as John from Chicago'.

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#64

Post by wakawaka28 »

breadwinner wrote: post #22

One of the issues is conflation of IT jobs and High Tech jobs. Those making laws don't understand the difference -- they are all "computer jobs" to them. IT does not require immigrant labor. Companies such as Infosys and Tata don't need to be operating in the US. There are plenty of US workers available to do the job. But High Tech is different. High Tech needs the best in the world, not the best in the US. The US le…

I think everyone (or virtually everyone) is OK with actual world-leading researchers coming to the US. But what we don't want is the labor market flooded with foreign "talent". The system is designed to try to get the researchers and noteworthy people, but corrupt people have found ways around all of it. There are paper mills, degree mills, cheating rings, etc. Plus firms that exist solely to funnel foreigners into the US for a fee.

There is always an economic argument to be made for importing the cheapest or allegedly "best" labor, but it's mostly about saving money even if it means destroying domestic workers. It sounds better when we're talking about a scientist instead of a construction worker or meat packer, but it's kind of the same problem. There are many cases of American workers being forced to train H1-B replacements, or being blatantly discriminated against for being, shall we say, obviously American.

If foreign researchers are able to prove themselves abroad and contribute as you say, I assume they can continue doing that in most cases without coming to the US to take jobs. If immigrants are such a great resource, why are poor countries not trying harder to keep those people from leaving? Why doesn't China import a bunch of Indians for IT work, or vice versa?

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#65

Post by utokyoberkeley »

ecshafer wrote: post #18

I have seen H1Bs used for basic Java development, Desktop Support, CRM managemetn, Marketing, Project Managers, and all sorts of basic office work. The idea its used for the best and brightest is absurd. When you also count the massive fraud in H1B, people looking for kickbacks, racial preferences, lying on resumes (I once interviewed an H1B with 4 pages on their resume, couldn't answer a single question from what I…

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Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#67

Post by xnx »

With AI rapidly exceeding the tech knowledge of even the most qualified workers, is the benefit of an H1B worker that significant? General communication and strategic skills might be stronger in domestic workers.

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#68

Post by ecshafer »

andai wrote: post #51
ecshafer wrote: post #18

I have seen H1Bs used for basic Java development, Desktop Support, CRM managemetn, Marketing, Project Managers, and all sorts of basic office work. The idea its used for the best and brightest is absurd. When you also count the massive fraud in H1B, people looking for kickbacks, racial preferences, lying on resumes (I once interviewed an H1B with 4 pages on their resume, couldn't answer a single question from what I…

Conversely, I remember seeing a documentary which showed a massive room full of students in china, an absolutely massive hall, all taking some advanced exam. The stat was provided: China produces more Masters students per day, than the US produces humans! Well, if that's the case, then meritocracy demands population replacement.

China is of course producing tons of great engineers, finance, mathematicians, science, etc. But China is also trying to provide good jobs for Chinese. A big reason I think China is seeing success is that on top of their education, they are then creating a pipeline for Chinese students to become workers. China doesn't want their people going overseas. They want them working, building industry, and developing technologies and skills locally.

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#69

Post by andrewla »

redlewel wrote: post #20

H1B is not about finding geniuses, this is O-1 Visa program. The H1B exists to find laborers in areas where we have a shortage of qualified people in US. Given the fact that in many fields we have lots of American graduates that struggle to get jobs, H1B currently has no legitimate purpose in America. It should be abolished entirely.

They both have similar roles, but O-1 is an immigrant visa and H-1B is a non-immigrant visa (a temporary worker visa).

Everything else is downstream of that.

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#70

Post by a3ahg »

utokyoberkeley wrote: post #65
ecshafer wrote: post #18

I have seen H1Bs used for basic Java development, Desktop Support, CRM managemetn, Marketing, Project Managers, and all sorts of basic office work. The idea its used for the best and brightest is absurd. When you also count the massive fraud in H1B, people looking for kickbacks, racial preferences, lying on resumes (I once interviewed an H1B with 4 pages on their resume, couldn't answer a single question from what I…

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