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Mushroom hunting with LLMs: what can go wrong?

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Re: Mushroom hunting with LLMs: what can go wrong?

#71

Post by nkrisc »

altcognito wrote: post #67
nkrisc wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the only reason you give advice is predicated on the transactional value of that action, I think you've given up on acting ethically. I said nothing of the sort. Let me give a different example: I would not ride on a plane being flown remotely by a pilot on the ground. But I will ride on a plane with the pilots aboard. I do not necessarily believe the remote pilot would intentionally endanger me, but at the same…

Neither does a radiologist but yet we trust them to read a CT scan. Your relatives can sue if there is malpractice, but in practice, misreading happens, and nobody goes to jail for that. Everything performs a particular task to the best of its ability and we all accept the level of risk we are willing to tolerate. If machines gain trust from enough sources, it will be accepted. All I'm saying here is (if you walk bac…

> Neither does a radiologist but yet we trust them to read a CT scan.

I also don’t really have any other options in that regard, so there’s no real choice to make, other than getting a second opinion. I may not have a chance for a second opinion if I fully trust an AI on mushroom ID.

> Most of us get in an elevator, or drive in a car, or even just buy food from a store.

Of course, and I do too. Mostly because I have to and because there are many aspects of those risks that remain under my direct control. At times I have decided to take the stairs instead of the elevator.

Re: Mushroom hunting with LLMs: what can go wrong?

#72

Post by jwilk »

josefritzishere wrote: post #64

LLMS ARE NON-DETERMINISTIC. DO NOT TRUST THEM WITH LIFE OR DEATH DECISIONS! Seriously, you could die of a near-optimal solution.

The lack or determinism is irrelevant. It's trivial to make an LLM deterministic (certianly much easier than to make a human deterministic!), but that wouldn't make it any more trustworthy.

Re: Mushroom hunting with LLMs: what can go wrong?

#73

Post by Obscurity4340 »

engineer_22 wrote: post #39
julienchastang wrote: post #29

Ha! I just had a very interesting conversation with ChatGPT about a mushroom that I found in my front lawn. I am 99% sure it was an edible oyster mushroom which included analysis the of the size, growing substrate (dead ash tree root which turns out to be a useful identifying characteristic -- I learned a lot about mycology in a short time). Plus I don't use fertilizers, herbicide, pesticides, fungicides (obviously)…

oysters are pretty safe

I mean, there's a reason the Old Testament banned them. Blech

Re: Mushroom hunting with LLMs: what can go wrong?

#74

Post by matusp »

tk781 wrote: post #33

What are the error rates for a human experienced/trained in spotting mushrooms? (isn't that the standard proponents use for autonomous driving?)

Mushroom pickers generally know only a handful of easy to distinguish types and only pick those. I would say that 99.9% of pickers will never get poisoned.

Re: Mushroom hunting with LLMs: what can go wrong?

#75

Post by zikduruqe »

_whiteCaps_ wrote: post #57
zikduruqe wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Morels are starting to make good progress in being farmed. But, I still enjoy the hunt every spring.

They're still on my bucket list to find. Lots of false morels around here. :(

Maybe checkout morels.com forums next spring to gather some intel on the conditions.

Re: Mushroom hunting with LLMs: what can go wrong?

#76

Post by josefritzishere »

jwilk wrote: post #72
josefritzishere wrote: post #64

LLMS ARE NON-DETERMINISTIC. DO NOT TRUST THEM WITH LIFE OR DEATH DECISIONS! Seriously, you could die of a near-optimal solution.

The lack or determinism is irrelevant. It's trivial to make an LLM deterministic (certianly much easier than to make a human deterministic!), but that wouldn't make it any more trustworthy.

When you are ingesting potential toxins determinism is crucial. You have a random chance of dying. Facts matter.

Re: Mushroom hunting with LLMs: what can go wrong?

#77

Post by petsfed »

khazhoux wrote: post #70
petsfed wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you this actively shitty towards all hobbies you don't also enjoy? People have been foraging for mushrooms for literally thousands of years, but mushroom cultivation is pretty recent, and the overwhelming majority of edible species have not yet been reliably cultivated. Are you ignorant of where those interesting flavors come from (indeed, are discovered )? This has strong "why should we care about farms? People…

> Are you this actively shitty towards all hobbies you don't also enjoy No, really just this one. There’s not that many hobbies that have death as an outcome of a minor mistake. For something like free solo climbing, we all understand those guys are nuts and wired different for an incredible high. For mushroom foraging on the other hand, it seems to me like… your reward is a slightly different mushroom flavor?

Are you thinking that mushroom foraging is just like going to the store, and there are no experiential benefits from actually going out to look?

Would you characterize beekeeping as nuts? Too many bee stings in a short(ish, weeks or months typically) period of time render one deathly allergic to further bee stings. Ooh, what about the risk of growing tomatoes, potatoes, or other members of the belladonna family? I mean, their greens are all toxic. Likewise for home grown rhubarb!

There are plenty of things people engage in for fun, on a regular basis, that are incredibly punishing of mistakes. Car and home repair come to mind. Downhill skiing, bicycling, motorcycling are all in there.

But the thing of it is, for every single one that I've mentioned, there are reasonable steps to be taken to mitigate a lot of those risks. Like, every mushroom foraging guide I've consumed goes to some lengths to point out how to correctly differentiate between dangerous and not dangerous mushrooms.

Your take on why people free solo is also misinformed. To be honest, I've never experienced an adrenaline rush from it, and if I did, I'd expect that to be in the 2-3 seconds before I met a violent and bloody end. It's not an "I survived that!" sort of experience, so much as it is a "I only had to focus on the climbing, not faffing with ropes and things" experience. A core goal of my climbing is already not to fall, and I can already get seriously hurt or killed, even whilst using the gear correctly. Neither the risk nor the sense of defying it are factors in why I do it.

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