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The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

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Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#51

Post by andai »

ecshafer wrote: post #18

I have seen H1Bs used for basic Java development, Desktop Support, CRM managemetn, Marketing, Project Managers, and all sorts of basic office work. The idea its used for the best and brightest is absurd. When you also count the massive fraud in H1B, people looking for kickbacks, racial preferences, lying on resumes (I once interviewed an H1B with 4 pages on their resume, couldn't answer a single question from what I…

Conversely, I remember seeing a documentary which showed a massive room full of students in china, an absolutely massive hall, all taking some advanced exam. The stat was provided: China produces more Masters students per day, than the US produces humans!

Well, if that's the case, then meritocracy demands population replacement.

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#52

Post by jazzpush2 »

tehlike wrote: post #40
redlewel wrote: post #20

H1B is not about finding geniuses, this is O-1 Visa program. The H1B exists to find laborers in areas where we have a shortage of qualified people in US. Given the fact that in many fields we have lots of American graduates that struggle to get jobs, H1B currently has no legitimate purpose in America. It should be abolished entirely.

There's a playbook someone on X published (and bragged about it). Borderline fraudulent imho. So even though O-1 is intended for extra ordinary abilities, it's far from one.

O-1 is about as far as you can get these days. Just search O-1 on x.com and see the type of people that have it - often designers, 'product' folks, etc. working for no-name YC startups.

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#53

Post by napoleond »

eigencoder wrote: post #32
YesBox wrote: post #13

When I was in high school, I took a physics class. I think I scraped by but one thing the teacher said that has stuck with me ever since was "when you want to test a hypothesis, set the variables to extreme numbers". Very useful framework IMO! If we pursued the "Most Qualified" in its truest form, then ~95%[1] of the jobs in this country would be handed over to foreigners. In isolation, this would be great for US com…

I don't follow that "Most Qualified" would mean 95% of jobs going to foreigners. I get that the U.S. is 4-5% of the world's population, but if I live in San Antonio, Texas, the pool of plumbers for my house must also live in San Antonio, Texas, meaning that 99.9+% of the world is not remotely qualified for the job.

I mean, this debate is about immigration, right? So current location doesn't super matter, assuming you can amortize the cost of relocating a plumber across several years' worth of plumbing work.

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#54

Post by phendrenad2 »

I see this debate as not really being about immigration, but as a facet of the eternal war between plutocrats and socialists. Plutocrats prey on socialist countries, exploiting their high standard of living and high social trust. Socialism more often than not arises when plutocrats have hollowed out a country and left it fallow, and interferes with the plutocrats second phase where they "brain drain" the now-desperate people and use them as shock troops in their next campaign. Plutocrats want to restrict immigration to the needs of business, while socialists want immigration to be as egalitarian as possible. As such, socialists and plutocrats are natural enemies. Socialist countries sometimes manage to shake off the plutocrats, and in fact America's "melting pot" idea was a well-timed inoculation against them.

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#55

Post by mc32 »

phainopepla2 wrote: post #41
ecshafer wrote: post #18

I have seen H1Bs used for basic Java development, Desktop Support, CRM managemetn, Marketing, Project Managers, and all sorts of basic office work. The idea its used for the best and brightest is absurd. When you also count the massive fraud in H1B, people looking for kickbacks, racial preferences, lying on resumes (I once interviewed an H1B with 4 pages on their resume, couldn't answer a single question from what I…

> I have seen H1Bs used for basic Java development, Desktop Support [...] Working in non-FAANG corporate America, these types of roles are the only thing thing I've ever seen H1B hires used for. They've run the gamut from incompetent to quite good, but none have ever been the "best and brightest". It saddens me that the left no longer seems to care about protecting American workers.

You know, they used to. Bernie spoke against relocating refugees (from Serbia or something) back in the day due to the fact he had unemployed local Vermonters. They used to care. They had cared less since the second Reagan admin, but completely abandoned any pretense after GW's first term win.

What I've seen is a local workforce (typically, then a mix of 1st gen Americans) being asked to train their replacements. Some replacements on Visas and some remote. But what gall to ask you to train your [cheaper] replacements.

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#56

Post by HPsquared »

fundad wrote: post #37
samtp wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems more likely to just lead to larger offices in India, reducing high earners here in America (even if only temporary) and reducing the amount of money that is recycled through American cities.

Economic growth is not valued universally as we are seeing very clearly. There are more anti-growth people that you think.

It's usually about how much weight is placed on perceived negative externalities.

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#57

Post by wbl »

solidsnack9000 wrote: post #17

It's not a matter of economics, corporate policy or belief in people -- it's a strategic matter. A country needs a secure and stable pipeline for personnel as much as for any other strategic asset. A country also needs to keep up and learn from other countries. That means working with and integrating technologies, ideas and, yes, personnel from other countries. It's a balance thing and Anduril has a hard job in tryin…

US higher education is that pipeline now, and it didn't exist in the 1930's and 1940's the way it does now.

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#58

Post by cptaj »

ecshafer wrote: post #18

I have seen H1Bs used for basic Java development, Desktop Support, CRM managemetn, Marketing, Project Managers, and all sorts of basic office work. The idea its used for the best and brightest is absurd. When you also count the massive fraud in H1B, people looking for kickbacks, racial preferences, lying on resumes (I once interviewed an H1B with 4 pages on their resume, couldn't answer a single question from what I…

As with many sociopolitical issues today, the problem here doesn't seem to be the core issue being discussed but what I like to call: Officials Not Doing Their Damn Job

If the H1B visas were awarded as intended this would be non-issue

You will find that many issues we face as a society are simply this same thing happening in different areas of public service

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#59

Post by xnx »

fundad wrote: post #37
samtp wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems more likely to just lead to larger offices in India, reducing high earners here in America (even if only temporary) and reducing the amount of money that is recycled through American cities.

Economic growth is not valued universally as we are seeing very clearly. There are more anti-growth people that you think.

What good is "economic growth" if the citizen/voter does not think it benefits them?

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#60

Post by topspin »

glitchc wrote: post #6
skmurphy wrote: post #2

Conclusion: "There is plenty of international talent that can and should be leveraged in the appropriate places and the proper ways. There are many instances where you’re going to want to hire a leading expert in a technical field. But most jobs, the qualifications are a core technical and subject competency combined with diligence and a willingness to learn. [..] We need to encourage a corporate mindset that believe…

> But most jobs, the qualifications are a core technical and subject competency combined with diligence and a willingness to learn. [..] > We need to encourage a corporate mindset that believes in the importance of building up the American talent pool to tackle not only the challenge in front of them but the array of challenges that the future will bring. It's tough to square this noble thought with what's actually h…

> How does one convince business leaders to bring it back?

There are precisely 1.0 ways to do that: make all of the alternatives more expensive.

That's it. Nothing else will move the needle.

I don't believe it is possible: every policy one can imagine, short of establishing a GULAG system to compel compliance, has powerful opposing interests, including workers themselves. It would require the sort of comprehensive and sustained focus that a nation aspiring to nearly suicidal liberalism can not deliver.

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