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Dutch central bank moves share of gold from U.S., Canada to London

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Re: Dutch central bank moves share of gold from U.S., Canada to London

#211

Post by csense »

vinay427 wrote: post #173
adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it’s a very specific geopolitical risk. European countries aren’t worried that China will conquer the U.S. and they’d lose access to their gold because a hostile Chinese government controls it. The increased risk is that the U.S. was considered basically risk free for allies, and now the U.S. isn’t considered risk free anymore and allied status is also at risk.

To the extent this is the justification, why is Canada included?

The Canadian government froze the bank accounts of truckers involved in a protest [1] [2] [3].

If a government is willing to go after the property of its own citizens without due process, foreign investors have to think: "What's to stop the same from happening to me?" Even if that foreign investor's a central bank.

[1] https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/debanking-and-debunki...

[2] Maybe the truckers' protest went too far; they were blocking roads. The point isn't whether they deserved to be punished; the point is that their accounts were frozen without going through the laws and court system.

[3] This was in 2022, so it has nothing to do with the current US administration.

Re: Dutch central bank moves share of gold from U.S., Canada to London

#212

Post by mikewarot »

watwut wrote: post #72
mikewarot wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It is result of long term conservative project. And somehow you managed to blame non-conservatives for it. Trump is a cause of destruction. He is literally making those decisions. He is to blame. Trump and project 2025 are what republicans and conservatives were trying to achieve for years and years. Again, it hapened intentionally. But noooooo, must blame Obama. Anyone except directly responsable organizations and p…

There are always insane people waiting with a plan, its the job of government, and politicians to keep them at bay. [1,2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Re: Dutch central bank moves share of gold from U.S., Canada to London

#213

Post by justinhj »

slater wrote: post #138
justinhj wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US "Could care less" is the equivalent to the British expression "Couldn't care less". The intention and meaning is the same. So the original comment did mean to say what they said. My point was that what may look like a mistake or a contradiction is just cultural development of natural language. Another example is the British expression "It would be cheap at half the price"

> In the US "Could care less" is the equivalent to the British expression "Couldn't care less" No, it's not.

Yes, it is.

Re: Dutch central bank moves share of gold from U.S., Canada to London

#214

Post by benj111 »

mr_toad wrote: post #198
TheRealPomax wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the fun thing about gold. It's literal gold, not numbers on a spreadsheet. Moving it really means moving it: bars are stamped and owned, and if the owner wants to move them, those bars need to get transported to wherever the owner says they should be. It's also the idiotic thing about gold, a metal that has no more or less inherent monetary value than a fiat currency =)

> It's also the idiotic thing about gold, a metal that has no more or less inherent monetary value than a fiat currency =) I don’t know why people keep repeating that. Half of gold production is used in industry and for jewellery. And gold has never lost its value the way that some paper currencies have. It’s not like anyone can print gold bars.

The jewellery market stems from the 'inherent' value thing though.

I think the OPs point is that gold is an arbitrary metal that has been infused with value, just like fiat currency is some paper that has been infused with value. Paper also has 'useful' uses, but that isn't underpinning the value of fiat currency.

Yes, I'll grant that gold is stable in that it doesn't corroded , it's somewhat rare, etc, so it is better suited than other metals, there's still no intrinsic reason to value it though.

I don't think this is a hill that either the op or I is willing to die on though. It is an observation of human behaviour, rather than a statement that gold _should not_ be the world store of value.

Re: Dutch central bank moves share of gold from U.S., Canada to London

#215

Post by megagpt5 »

csense wrote: post #211
vinay427 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the extent this is the justification, why is Canada included?

The Canadian government froze the bank accounts of truckers involved in a protest [1] [2] [3]. If a government is willing to go after the property of its own citizens without due process, foreign investors have to think: "What's to stop the same from happening to me?" Even if that foreign investor's a central bank. [1] https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/debanking-and-debunki... [2] Maybe the truckers' protest wen…

I thought they did go through the law and courts system.

Re: Dutch central bank moves share of gold from U.S., Canada to London

#216

Post by benj111 »

skrebbel wrote: post #123
andsoitis wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I’m simply echoing what the Dutch government said. I’m taking them at face value since the Dutch are pretty direct.

The Dutch are pretty direct but not to Donald Trump, who has a famously thin skin and can cause a huge European crisis with a single tweet. You have to see all European diplomacy through that lens. Everybody’s tiptoeing around the orange idiot’s feelings and meanwhile working hard to make sure we’re never again so dependent on a country that’s so untrustworthy. This gold move is one of the many little steps taken in…

You could make the argument that leaving gold there also leaves them ammunition for later. The threat of removing the rest is also a useful tool. Personally I'd be getting out of all US bond holdings and investments and making sure the banks are limiting exposed too, well personally I have. Keeping investments in the US, in US debt is just irresponsible at the moment.

Re: Dutch central bank moves share of gold from U.S., Canada to London

#217

Post by eldaisfish »

csense wrote: post #211
vinay427 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the extent this is the justification, why is Canada included?

The Canadian government froze the bank accounts of truckers involved in a protest [1] [2] [3]. If a government is willing to go after the property of its own citizens without due process, foreign investors have to think: "What's to stop the same from happening to me?" Even if that foreign investor's a central bank. [1] https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/debanking-and-debunki... [2] Maybe the truckers' protest wen…

For anyone curious, this is hyperbole that people of certain political persuasions love to mischaracterise.

These were not "protests", they were a sustained attempt to appeal to the wrong level of government for policies of a foreign government by a bunch of people who were riled up on the internet. Highlights included nazi flags, guns, harassing and threatening women and local residents, etc.

what is most telling is that when you search for commentary about the Canadian federal government freezing bank accounts, a significant portion of links are from reactionary, right wing websites.

Re: Dutch central bank moves share of gold from U.S., Canada to London

#218

Post by bix6 »

megagpt3 wrote: post #177
bix6 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the long term implications? Gold can’t reasonably be the medium so new currency baskets?

Implications are on the treasury side. Without treasury buyers the US dollar collapses or hyperinflates or the US government is bankrupt or some other widespread system failure, in any case the entire US economy falls apart without treasury buyers. But these things move slowly.

Bot?

Re: Dutch central bank moves share of gold from U.S., Canada to London

#219

Post by rdm_blackhole »

_whiteCaps_ wrote: post #194
rdm_blackhole wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not voting is consent to the status quo. I disagree fundamentally. Not voting is simply not making a choice. If the choices presented do not align with my preferences then I do not vote. Why would I vote for someone who I don't support? I don't pick the candidates that are offered. Want me to vote? Then get better candidates next time! Until then I will exercise my right to not vote. Your status quo also assume tha…

I think purposely spoiling your ballot is a better signal to the parties that none of them are acceptable. Is that possible in your elections? Around here, a spoiled ballot is scrutinized by the party observers, so your message would definitely be heard. I'd love to see a ballot with ranked choice voting that includes a none of the above option.

I could technically vote in 3 countries but I vote in none.

My preferred voting system is the ranked choice one in Australia but Australia also has compulsory voting which I disagree with.

I think in a democracy, it is up to the voter to decide if and how much they want to get involved in the democratic process just like a person has the right to join or not a parti, listen or not to a political debate and so on and so forth.

I wish the blank vote was more represented in the democratic process somehow but I don't really have a solution for this problem.

Re: Dutch central bank moves share of gold from U.S., Canada to London

#220

Post by lotsofpulp »

benj111 wrote: post #214
mr_toad wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's also the idiotic thing about gold, a metal that has no more or less inherent monetary value than a fiat currency =) I don’t know why people keep repeating that. Half of gold production is used in industry and for jewellery. And gold has never lost its value the way that some paper currencies have. It’s not like anyone can print gold bars.

The jewellery market stems from the 'inherent' value thing though. I think the OPs point is that gold is an arbitrary metal that has been infused with value, just like fiat currency is some paper that has been infused with value. Paper also has 'useful' uses, but that isn't underpinning the value of fiat currency. Yes, I'll grant that gold is stable in that it doesn't corroded , it's somewhat rare, etc, so it is bett…

>Yes, I'll grant that gold is stable in that it doesn't corroded , it's somewhat rare, etc, so it is better suited than other metals, there's still no intrinsic reason to value it though.

...you just provided intrinsic reasons for why gold has value. Humans need to trade, bartering goods and services directly is less efficient than using a currency, and gold has qualities that make it more useful as a currency than other materials. It is the opposite of an arbitrary metal, it is a material that has specific desirable qualities hence chosen to be used as a currency by many societies.

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