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LLMs: Intelligence vs. Cost

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21–30 of 48 posts

Re: LLMs: Intelligence vs. Cost

#21
post #7

Why use electricity alone for open models? Surely you’d want to spread the cost of hardware over the period too?

I think the key there is “hardware you already own.” If you own a graphics card you bought for gaming or a laptop you bought for doing schoolwork there is $0 in cost of local AI tokens, because 100% of the cost was assigned to doing other things.

It's bad accounting to only look at marginal cost and ignore depreciating hardware asset costs.

Re: LLMs: Intelligence vs. Cost

#22
The complaint about not being able to switch between linear and log is valid, which is what I did for making a 3D speed/cost/quality frontier application for a recent meetup talk: https://www.williamangel.net/apps/model_performance.html

Because speed is important, as the reasoning and hardware determine both cost and speed. it's a three dimensional tradeoff.

Re: LLMs: Intelligence vs. Cost

#23
post #7

Why use electricity alone for open models? Surely you’d want to spread the cost of hardware over the period too?

I think the key there is “hardware you already own.” If you own a graphics card you bought for gaming or a laptop you bought for doing schoolwork there is $0 in cost of local AI tokens, because 100% of the cost was assigned to doing other things.

God, I'd love to have more local VRAM but the card costs are out of control.

Based on these costs I'd almost expect the amount of gaming graphics memory to go down over the next few years putting more stress on running those local models.

Re: LLMs: Intelligence vs. Cost

#25
post #16
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to be fair, you don't need to start the y-axis at zero [0] but for some of the graphs where the lowest value is close to 0 the best practice is to do so there's a fun Excel artifact where it auto-selects the 'relevant' range with no adjustment for how proportionally close to 0 the values are - a professional researcher publishing to a journal should know better (and should be ridiculed for not incorporating best prac…

IMO in this case is mandatory to start from 0 because it alters the visual perception. Just look at the first chart: the distance between Fable 5.1 and Sol is <5%, but it looks like 25 or 30%.

I disagree. The y-axis is some arbitrary intelligence score that we use as a proxy for performance on whatever our specific task happens to be. So it doesn't matter if a model is a 0, 1, or 20 along this axis, they are all useless for the tasks I want.

And as the complexity of your score increases, the cutoff goes up. We can quibble about where your personal cutoff is, but it aint 0.

Re: LLMs: Intelligence vs. Cost

#28
post #4

When I accessed the site, it showed the FBI badge says that the site was blocked and redirect to fbi.gov !! WTH?

Not seeing that, that's weird... Maybe a site sharing the same IP is blocked by the FBI through your ISP?

No, they use geo-fencing and redirect the request to the FBI site! :D

Re: LLMs: Intelligence vs. Cost

#29
post #10

Complaining about "bad charting" and posting a chart with y-axis that doesn't start at 0 is kinda weird.

Not at all, as long as it's labeled as such. Coming from engineering/science, this is common.

What is bad is starting at 0, showing an indicator of a gap, and suddenly starting at 30 or whatever after the gap.

Re: LLMs: Intelligence vs. Cost

#30
post #25
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO in this case is mandatory to start from 0 because it alters the visual perception. Just look at the first chart: the distance between Fable 5.1 and Sol is <5%, but it looks like 25 or 30%.

I disagree. The y-axis is some arbitrary intelligence score that we use as a proxy for performance on whatever our specific task happens to be. So it doesn't matter if a model is a 0, 1, or 20 along this axis, they are all useless for the tasks I want. And as the complexity of your score increases, the cutoff goes up. We can quibble about where your personal cutoff is, but it aint 0.

Y-axis is between 0 and 100.

But even if it was between 0 and Inf+, it still gives you a wrong perspective, especially if you are not paying attention, on model capabilities.

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