Live data from Hacker News

What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

worksinprogress.co

31–40 of 77 posts

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#31

This was pointed out to me a while ago, but it seems to hold true: Whether someone appreciates a modern engineered landfill is a useful Shibboleth for distinguishing real evidence-based environmentalism from narcissistic signaling "environmentalism." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRx_dZawN44

I'm one of those folks who appreciate a well-engineered landfill. We had a great one in Nevada County, CA. Now that I've moved back to Texas, I've learned the difference the hard way, although not as hard as the people who lost their homes.[1]

1. https://abc7amarillo.com/news/local/officials-say-stinky-fir...

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#32
post #3

The authors think reusing a cotton bag for 173 times is difficult - that's all we need to say about this article. When recommendation for landfilling comes from this kind of sources, I think we can safely assume we are doing absolutely great with our demands to reuse, repair and recycle!

Also the best way to manage waste is to not generate it in the first place. I visited some places that package nearly all their vegetables and fruits in 1 use plastic containers, this is bonkers.

Plastic, when used properly, significantly reduces food waste. It's a trade-off curve. Like most trade-offs, optimal is likely somewhere in the middle rather than on either extreme.

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the best way to manage waste is to not generate it in the first place. I visited some places that package nearly all their vegetables and fruits in 1 use plastic containers, this is bonkers.

Right, if we have a limited resource of something valuable, should we just use it up once and throw out the product entirely? If plastic is so efficient, why wouldn’t we make reusable bags out of it instead of cotton? Why is the argument to waste it? We aren’t getting more oil.

Plastic can be made from synthetic oil; it's often higher quality as a result. Oil is not a limiting factor.

Plastic is a good mechanism for carbon sequestration. Pull some carbon from the air and use it to make something both useful and permanent.

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#34

That's fine if said trash actually ends up in the landfill. When it ends up ont the grass next to the parking lot is when you start to get the idea that we're all living in each others filth. Also I disagree that energy should be the item to minimize. It makes sense if you are burning stuff for it, but we've known how to get free energy from the sky for quite a while.

If solar energy is free, or close enough not to matter, it's odd that the quote I got for installing it for my house is tens of thousands of dollars. Or that about 700M people don't have electricity, or that 2B people cook with wood, charcoal, dung, etc. But I can see why, if you believe that energy is free, you would have an entirely different view of global and local economics.

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#36
> We have plenty of space to put them – less than 0.01 percent of the US is used for landfill, less than 0.001 percent of Australia is, and only about 0.02 percent of Germany is.

Not all space is equally viable. Landfills need to be close enough to populated areas to make waste transportation feasible, while far enough from populated areas to avoid being a blight.

So, sure, you can build a landfill in the very center of the Australian outback, but who's going to use it?

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#37
It's strict here in Switzerland and from what I've heard similarly in Japan. There really isn't much that can actually be recycled - PET can be but other plastics are incinerated to produce electricity so they have to be sorted. Newspaper can be recycled but pretty much no other paper can be so it gets incinerated also. Cardboard can be recycled. And we have to recycle glass and metal. If you do it wrong you may be fined.

My cousin lives in Japan and says buying pringles is a pain because you have to tear the "can" apart into its separate components - metal, paper, and plastic all in one container.

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#38
This author does what other pro-industry mouthpieces do: 1. Reference a real scientific study with a genuine but conditional result, 2. Remove the qualifications associated with the study, so they can 3. Make a much stronger rhetorical conclusion.

Or they simply willfully misreport the results.It's exhausting exercise to have to continuously fact-check these shills. Here's just one example from the article:

"Approximately a hundred rivers, mostly in South and South-East Asia, account for half of ocean plastic."

That is not supported by the cited study. Earlier models estimated highly concentrated emissions; the cited paper concluded that emissions were distributed among far more rivers than previously thought.The cited paper actually helped overturn the older “a handful of rivers cause nearly everything” story. Yet the article uses it to tell essentially that same concentrated-source story.

Also, not "Half of ocean plastic." The paper actually says: “More than 1000 rivers account for 80% of global _riverine plastic emissions_ into the ocean." They did not measure half of all plastic in the ocean. The paper modeled annual floating macroplastic (not microplastics) emissions from rivers to ocean. That is different from: "all plastic already present in the ocean or "all plastic entering the ocean from every source".

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#39
the article and most comments here are focused in the wrong direction.

To me the real and only question is, can burying trash in landfills be made environmentally safe, and is it sustainable enough that we can do it for the next 100 years after which solar powered robots can mine those goldmines for new uses?

my time on earth is limited, and I'd prefer not to spend it handling trash; this waste of human life and potential is an irretrievable cost. I'd prefer not to even have had it dominating and skewing politics since the 1970s. Leisure time before you die is precious, that's something we can all agree on.

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#40
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just that, but they go as far as claiming that single-use Solo cups are more environmentally than using a mug. Literally anything made cheap and quick and with little energy is better by their calculus. Doesn't pass the sniff test, IMO.

Not to mention the microplastics. Plus the Solo cups are transported over a great distance as well, between the fuel and packaging it could easily triple their carbon costs.

> Plus the Solo cups are transported over a great distance as well, between the fuel and packaging it could easily triple their carbon costs.

As opposed to ceramic mugs that just materialize in your house? Not sure about you, but I don't have a dilithium powered transporter in my kitchen.

Post reply on HN