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Just Bury Your Trash

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Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#121

Post by throwaway2037 »

somenameforme wrote: post #66
throwitaway222 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CA did the wrong thing for like 12 years. We just finally went back to paper bags for everything. If it ends up on a road, it won't kill animals, it will eventually break apart and turn into particulates. It's what we did before plastic bags rained from the sky into all grocery stores. And the best part: if you have permanent bags you can still use them.

There's [very] biodegradable plastics as well. I found out my local store swapped to them in a pretty amusing way. I'd collect plastic bags to use as trash bags and the like. One day I went to grab some from under my counter there was this mess of orange confetti like stuff everywhere from some of the [orange] bags that'd degraded even in just normal storage conditions.

How fast do these "[very] biodegradable plastics" degrade? Probably not as fast a wind gust can trap them in trees, or livestock can accidentally injest them.

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#123

Post by SamBorick »

mrob wrote: post #117
SamBorick wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ALSO, what is the obsession with embodied energy? Like lets think about plastic bags from an object use standpoint. Given you have a collection of stuff to carry would you prefer: A) A reasonably sturdy bag that can be styled to your preference (like with art or whatever) that you have to remember to bring with you when you need. B) The literal minimum possible material to be considered a bag. Even money whatever you…

As somebody who cycles as a primary form of transport, I prefer plastic. It weighs less, it's more compact, and it's waterproof (important when it's raining). If I had to use cotton that would incentivize using a car instead. It's not a huge difference, but it doesn't take many marginal cyclists switching to cars to wipe out all the theoretical environmental benefits of cotton.

That's great! Genuinely, I think you should keep doing that.

My point was not actually about plastic vs reusable. My point was, why is embodied energy always used in contrarian climate arguments. Why not talk about ergonomics, or the "bike waterproof-ness standard"?

I think embodied energy is being used in this article to push the author's specific views, which to fund atmospheric carbon extraction.

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#124

Post by throwaway2037 »

Symmetry wrote: post #27
duggan wrote: post #7

I don't remember energy use being the problem with plastic bags? It was plastic bags being absolutely everywhere in the environment. Streets, parks, trees. Wrapped around anything sticking out of the ground. On your face on a windy day. Pollution is the problem with plastic. Probably health, too, now that microplastics are being recognized as an issue.

But the pollution problem from plastic bags is solved equally well if we bury them or recycle them. Provided your municipality doesn't just dump trash in the nearest river which is an issue in some parts of the world. Since we can't get 100% compliance in rich countries and poor countries can't afford landfills that's a good reason to not use plastic. But it's not a good reason to have plastic recycling programs.

    > Provided your municipality doesn't just dump trash in the nearest river which is an issue in some parts of the world.
Is this really true? I doubt it. In developing countries, there are lots of informal settlements are built along rivers. They have no municipal trash service, so a lot of garbage is burned locally (in a pit or oil drum) or is thrown in the river.

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#125

Post by zejn »

butlike wrote: post #20
Flavius wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, but green activists are actively fighting against burning trash. This needs to stop. Even if a country doesn't burn coal it should still burn trash instead of sending it to poor countries. People need to take responsibility for the trash that they generate.

Yeah, burning trash isn't a great answer

It's not great, but burning trash in controlled incinerator is still much better than burning trash in an uncontrolled underground landfill fire.[1]

[1] https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2026-08-06/bo...

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#126

Post by throwaway2037 »

zejn wrote: post #116
scotty79 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use single use plastic bag 50 times or more before it deteriorates, not the thinnest kind, but the average one. They are incredibly strong. The dedicated mult-use ones are insanely strong, but also few times thicker and more unwieldy. Like with single use shaving razor. They don't need to be literally single use. It depends on the user. You can use it as long as it serves you. The best thing limiting access t…

Just a note: Razors are single use for health reasons - not reusing razor significantly reduces chances of inflammation.

If this is really true, why does Gillette advertise their high-end, multi-blade razors as multi-use? For their top product, they say "up to 20 comfortable shaves".

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#127

Post by SamBorick »

AlexandrB wrote: post #92
SamBorick wrote: post #58

"Instead of paying more to recycle, we could spend that money far more effectively on other environmental mitigation measures like carbon capture." Yeah, let's stop doing the fairly well established recycling programs that have knock on benefits like reducing pollution, and instead start scaling an entirely unproven and expensive mitigation program. These are some prominent Effect Altruism guys so I know "cause prior…

The push for recycling has been successful at making people feel better about themselves, not successful at saving energy or raw materials. The article also goes on at length about this, but most of what's put in recycling bins gets thrown out anyways and folks regularly put stuff in recycling bins that can't be recycled, just increasing the cost of recycling programs while lowering their effectiveness. Recycling met…

Yes, that is true. From the NPR article:

"The real solution is to switch to systems of reuse and refill," Ramsden said. "We are at a decision point on plastic pollution. It is time for corporations to turn off the plastic tap."

"Just Bury Your Trash" is arguing "Turn the plastic tap on more please, and don't even bother TRYING to recycle it".

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#128

Post by throwaway2037 »

conorbergin wrote: post #11

I think using a cotton bag 173 times to beat plastic bags and a mug 1,000 times to beat disposable cups sounds completely reasonable.

    > a mug 1,000 times to beat disposable cups sounds completely reasonable.
Small nitpick here: A mug needs to be cleaned and washed after each use. (Certainly in commercial settings.) However, a reusable grocery bag probably gets washed at max: once per month. Still: I love it when a bar goes out of the way to use mugs/glasses instead of disposal cups!

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#129

Post by zejn »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #126
zejn wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a note: Razors are single use for health reasons - not reusing razor significantly reduces chances of inflammation.

If this is really true, why does Gillette advertise their high-end, multi-blade razors as multi-use? For their top product, they say "up to 20 comfortable shaves".

Sure, as you can also reuse single use razors.

But the main benefit of single use is reducing the chances of skin inflammation after using the razor.

If using single-use razors, I'd recommend replacing just the blades, not the razor.

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#130

Post by broken-kebab »

collabs wrote: post #113

> By contrast, there is no danger of running out of paper. We can always grow more trees, and that is in fact a decent way of removing carbon from the atmosphere. The silicon used to make glass is one of the most abundant elements on Earth. Please correct me if I am wrong, but from what I understand, not all sand is created equal. Desert sand, like in the Sahara Desert, is eroded by wind. The smooth, round, and tiny…

On one hand, you are not wrong, sands differ in qualities, but the question is what you need to make from it. Glass-grade sands aren't everywhere, but they are abundant anyway. Some industries, like solar panels production, require higher purity, and such sands reserves are way more limited.
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