FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#201

Post by ericmay » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:31 PM UTC

skwirl wrote: post #190

jeffbee wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States doesn't have a central registry of citizens. New births are supposed to be recorded by local officials, in about 3000 different jurisdictions, and they're only recorded locally. Many of those local jurisdictions are operated poorly, and in some cases they have refused to issue certificates of birth based on race, or other personal grudges held by officials. So we simply aren't in the position to iss…

This was something I fully realized when I got married. Where is the official record that we are married? It’s a piece of paper in a filing cabinet in a small town two states away. Unless I provide a copy of my license, there is no way for anyone to see for sure if I’m married except to go to every jurisdiction nationally and see if they have a marriage license that matches my info. You could try to infer it from som…

Strange, but a little more decentralized and a little more "free", isn't it?

Why go through some centralized, hackable database, wait in line, and maybe get told to go away by some nameless official making minimum wage to update your last name when you can just decide to start using it and that's your prerogative? "I go by this, you don't get to decide". "My gender is this: it's not up to you to decide". I think it's something worth debating whether or not these kinds of things should even have anything to do with the government. I think there are good reasons, but I can certainly see very well-reasoned and principled arguments against the government being involved in some affairs like this.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#202

Post by freedomben » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:32 PM UTC

thephyber wrote: post #186

swingboy wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would probably be considered “disenfranchising” because people would have a hard time keeping track of their public key and the process to recover it would involve having to take off work, transportation, etc.

Ah yes, a facetious jab at legitimate criticisms of Voter ID laws. It's worth pointing out that the point of contact for state IDs is the DMV, which is the butt of every government inefficiency complaint. If, instead, it was done at USPS offices or even by postal workers on their routes, no one would complain. It's entirely about whether the burden is placed on the citizen to maintain their Constitutionally guarantee…

> If, instead, it was done at USPS offices or even by postal workers on their routes, no one would complain.

You must have had better luck with post offices than I have. Having lived in a dozen states and used many different post offices, the vast majority is an utter nightmare. Between the rudeness and the apathy, I would much prefer the DMV (depending on the state)

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#203

Post by mejthemage » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:36 PM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #11

mulmen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had two active Clear subscriptions at the same time. How did an identity verification company not know both accounts were the same person? They were both using the same credit card! What does an "identity verification" company even do?

Clear takes your money and zips you through the airport checkpoint line. Because terrorists wouldn't spend money or time to get through the lines faster?

You cut the line but still go through security.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#204

Post by ipsod » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:38 PM UTC

miohtama wrote: post #162

Nition wrote: post #12

The thing that really gets me about this one is that surely you can easily just delete the data after you've verified someone? But instead they decided to keep 153,347,439 of them.

Often regulation requires companies to keep this data for many years in the case the government wants to check on you. Not in the US, but in Spain, police gets this data real time when you rent a car or check in to a hotel. This is of course important for protecting you.

> This is of course important for protecting you.

Well, that's very kind of them. I am constantly impressed at the kindness of our governments, and the recent growth of that kindness. I guess that, with all of the power that modern technology is giving them, they're finally getting to live out their heart's desires of being very, very kind.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#205

Post by ericmay » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:42 PM UTC

k33n wrote: post #195

ericmay wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole idea of "voter's fraud" is actually something unheard of in Europe because you will get government issued id (Citizen ID) when you reach 15 y/o and it is renewed every 10 years. You are then using it for voting and in general proving your identity. The later models are biometric so it is very hard to fake it > It is elegant solution to everything what current administration is complaining about - prove of…

American States are not sovereign entities. We fought an entire war over that.

American states are sovereign entities. This is very well understood in Constitutional law, albeit a little confusing for the laymen as the common understanding of sovereignty would be something like, well France is sovereign because it has an army and it conducts trade and all of those sorts of sovereign things.

But US states are sovereign entities who have, effectively, joined together to delegate some of their sovereign activities to a federal body (which has increased in power over the years) for the common good. They are very tightly bound to the federal government, but these matters don't refute their sovereignty. It's one of the reasons, maybe the primary one, for the US Senate - it's a vote of sovereignty by any individual state so that states with higher populations don't simply dictate rules to states with lower levels of population. Lower population states wouldn't have agreed to delegate some of their sovereign rights without some mechanism to not be run over by populists.

10th/11th Amendment

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#206

Post by iamnothere » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:49 PM UTC

r3trohack3r wrote: post #198

embedding-shape wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Monopoly on violence" isn't some new concept I just invented here, it's a established concept about "legal use of force", which the government typically is the sole arbiter of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence Of course many engage in "violence", or "provide it", that is not in doubt.

I know it’s not new, thus why I said I’ve never seen a definition that is both true and useful. In the U.S. I can lawfully use violence in many ways under many circumstances. I.E. if you’re in my house and I didn’t invite you there, I can slay you lawfully. In the U.S. the federal government is not the only institution responsible for law making or law enforcement. It is not only entity that can lawfully use violence…

Not to mention the increasing use of private security and even private police, and the increasing use of military PMCs and privately owned/controlled “kill chain” components like Palantir and Starlink/Starshield.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#207

Post by k33n » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:54 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #205

k33n wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American States are not sovereign entities. We fought an entire war over that.

American states are sovereign entities. This is very well understood in Constitutional law, albeit a little confusing for the laymen as the common understanding of sovereignty would be something like, well France is sovereign because it has an army and it conducts trade and all of those sorts of sovereign things. But US states are sovereign entities who have, effectively, joined together to delegate some of their sov…

No, US States are not sovereign entities. They have no ability to conduct independent international diplomacy. They do not have independent militaries, and they have no right to secede. The supremacy clause (article 7) makes it clear that states cannot override federal law.

With the way you’re characterizing the idea of sovereignty, every entity in the world is semi-sovereign. But sovereignty isn’t a spectrum. An entity is either sovereign or it’s not.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#208

Post by jeffbee » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:58 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #187

jeffbee wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States doesn't have a central registry of citizens. New births are supposed to be recorded by local officials, in about 3000 different jurisdictions, and they're only recorded locally. Many of those local jurisdictions are operated poorly, and in some cases they have refused to issue certificates of birth based on race, or other personal grudges held by officials. So we simply aren't in the position to iss…

> and in some cases they have refused to issue certificates of birth based on race, or other personal grudges held by officials. Just to be clear for our international friends, this is basically as unheard of. "In some cases" you could say well in some cases of murder someone is a cannibal too. It's a big country with over 340 million people under one roof. Shit happens.

No, it was typical of the Jim Crow South. Black mothers were not permitted in hospitals, and county clerks refused to register home births. It was all part of the system of oppression.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#209

Post by ericmay » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 3:04 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #208

ericmay wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and in some cases they have refused to issue certificates of birth based on race, or other personal grudges held by officials. Just to be clear for our international friends, this is basically as unheard of. "In some cases" you could say well in some cases of murder someone is a cannibal too. It's a big country with over 340 million people under one roof. Shit happens.

No, it was typical of the Jim Crow South. Black mothers were not permitted in hospitals, and county clerks refused to register home births. It was all part of the system of oppression.

We don't live in the Jim Crow South anymore - you're making an extreme stretch here to try and paint a picture that isn't accurate. My point stands.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#210

Post by ethagnawl » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 3:07 PM UTC

red-iron-pine wrote: post #200

ethagnawl wrote: post #123

I know some modern, normal countries have done variations of this but the US missed a golden opportunity to give everyone an RSA keypair when they were coerced into signing up for an Enhanced/REAL ID. Instead of scanning, taking photos of or holding licences up to webcams (I was asked to do this recently) you provide your public key or, better, a signed message containing the name, website or other identifier which g…

the average american, even educated and talented ones, have absolutely no serious understanding what keypairs are, or why they need to take care of them i also have 0 trust in the USG's ability to not lose those, either through hacking or through blatent corruption a la DOGE, et al

> the average american, even educated and talented ones, have absolutely no serious understanding what keypairs are, or why they need to take care of them

You're right. Since a few others have said as much, I was sketching an outline and not suggesting handing people literal RSA keypairs. Any practical, _usable_ solution would involve a physical card, mobile app, web app, etc.