Just Bury Your Trash • Hacker News Board

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#41

Post by dofm » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:23 PM UTC

"In total, Britain’s Environment Agency calculated that a conventional cotton bag needed to be reused 173 times to beat plastic. Denmark’s equivalent public body estimated a similar ratio."

I think there's a thing about food shopping here. Americans just don't go shopping as frequently, so you're better off with paper bags in the back of your car.

I am a Brit. I have a Lidl cotton bag that I've probably used sixty times already. It augments and will ultimately replace two reusable foldable/pocketable bags from Marks & Spencer that I have used for all of my shopping for at least thirteen years, perhaps more like sixteen. (Genuinely can't remember when I bought them but as early as 2010 seems possible)

I shop on foot, about once every four or five days. I wil have used the two M&S bags on more than a thousand journeys. One of them is finally wearing thin. The other goes in my pocket more or less whenever I leave the house. They were themselves made from recycled material (rPET I guess, not cotton).

I use two the majority of the time so I am confident I've avoided using at least 1800 plastic bags.

(Weird timing, but I did end up needing one last night, annoyingly, because I had to shop in an emergency, but it is the first time in five years or so and it already has a reuse purpose)

Reusable shopping bags are easy. A British shopper might even get to 173 uses in a single year.

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#42

Post by ch4s3 » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:24 PM UTC

butlike wrote: post #20

Flavius wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, but green activists are actively fighting against burning trash. This needs to stop. Even if a country doesn't burn coal it should still burn trash instead of sending it to poor countries. People need to take responsibility for the trash that they generate.

Yeah, burning trash isn't a great answer

I'd say it depends. Amager Bakke in Denmark is a combined heat and power plant that burns waste and emits 687 grams of CO2 per kWh vs natural gas at 290 to 930 grams per kwh and coal at 900 to 1,050 grams per kwh. This makes burning trash CO2 competitive with Natural Gas. Using it for district heating probably improves the picture here because resistive electrical heating on a standard grid emits more CO2 than natural gas heat or pumped district heating.

It plausible that in cold climates burning trash has significant advantages.

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#43

Post by Symmetry » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:24 PM UTC

vel0city wrote: post #33

Symmetry wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the pollution problem from plastic bags is solved equally well if we bury them or recycle them. Provided your municipality doesn't just dump trash in the nearest river which is an issue in some parts of the world. Since we can't get 100% compliance in rich countries and poor countries can't afford landfills that's a good reason to not use plastic. But it's not a good reason to have plastic recycling programs.

> But the pollution problem from plastic bags is solved equally well if we bury them or recycle them We can't even reliably trust people to put the plastic bags in a bin and have that bin be cleanly collected and yet you're expecting people to bury them?? No, the solution is to massively reduce how often we use single-use plastic bags. It seems like every time I buy anything from any store its just assumed I want it…

It's the town or city that does the disposal whether that's burying, recycling, dumping at sea, or whatever. Again, this article isn't about whether we should produce plastic but how we should dispose of it once its collected.

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#44

Post by elil17 » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:24 PM UTC

Such a reductive title/framing. Yes, plastic recycling doesn't work very well. But that doesn't mean that getting rid of trash is simple/there aren't opportunities to reduce waste. Metal recycling, compost, glass bottle reuse, and proper management of landfills are all super important!

Also: > In total, Britain’s Environment Agency calculated that a conventional cotton bag needed to be reused 173 times to beat plastic.

They make it seem like this is a bad thing but surely the average cotton bag gets used more than 173 times. I've probably used some of my oldest reusable bags like ~1k times.

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#45

Post by toomuchtodo » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:24 PM UTC

murderfs wrote: post #22

toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

"I am once again asking you to consider plasma gasification." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_gasification InEnTec says its plasma technology effectively destroys PFAS - https://www.wastetodaymagazine.com/news/inentec-says-its-pla... - August 23rd, 2024 Production of high quality syngas from argon plasma gasification of plastic - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41623879 (September 2024) (0 comments) Plasma…

What's the point of this when incineration is an option? Even its wikipedia page has only negatives compared to incineration. > Air emissions can be cleaner than landfills and similar to that of incinerators. > Large initial investment costs relative to that of alternatives, including [...] incineration. > Operational costs are high relative to that of incineration.

I think you misread the Wikipedia page. Plasma gasification air emissions are cleaner with costs being somewhat higher than incineration. Plasma gasification breaks matter down at the molecular level versus combustion of incineration. With plasma gasification, you are paying more to end with a more inert end material and reduced hazardous process byproducts.

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#46

Post by throwitaway222 » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:24 PM UTC

lolcatzlulz wrote: post #28

duggan wrote: post #7

I don't remember energy use being the problem with plastic bags? It was plastic bags being absolutely everywhere in the environment. Streets, parks, trees. Wrapped around anything sticking out of the ground. On your face on a windy day. Pollution is the problem with plastic. Probably health, too, now that microplastics are being recognized as an issue.

I remember a debate in Texas politics a few years ago because livestock were dying from consumption of littered plastic bags. The state government response was to ban the ban of plastic bags.

CA did the wrong thing for like 12 years. We just finally went back to paper bags for everything. If it ends up on a road, it won't kill animals, it will eventually break apart and turn into particulates. It's what we did before plastic bags rained from the sky into all grocery stores. And the best part: if you have permanent bags you can still use them.

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#47

Post by riobard » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:25 PM UTC

ImHereToVote wrote: post #5

If a country burns coal. It should burn trash first, before the coal.

This is the way to go.

China cracked the pollution issues of burning trash, and built a lot of high-temperature incinerator to burn trash and generate electricity.

The overcapacity leads to a shortage(!) of new trash to burn, and it has started to dig out landfills accumulated from the past decades.

The video from Asianometry is very interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuIEBSb2xiE

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#48

Post by leonixyz » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:25 PM UTC

The authors think reusing a cotton bag for 173 times is difficult - that's all we need to say about this article. When recommendation for landfilling comes from this kind of sources, I think we can safely assume we are doing absolutely great with our demands to reuse, repair and recycle!

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#49

Post by _def » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:26 PM UTC

> a conventional cotton bag needed to be reused 173 times to beat plastic

So what? That's like a year of grocery shopping maybe. I easily use a tote bag for way longer than that and I'm not trying that hard to live an environment friendly life.

Re: Just Bury Your Trash

#50

Post by dkarl » Wed, Sep 02, 2026, 2:27 PM UTC

dinkblam wrote: post #13

conorbergin wrote: post #11

I think using a cotton bag 173 times to beat plastic bags and a mug 1,000 times to beat disposable cups sounds completely reasonable.

thats assuming the plastic bag is used once, but i've always reused them, sometimes had the same bags for 10 years however i have never re-used a paper bag because they are awfully loud and cannot be compressed. it is the worst kind of bag.

My grocery store now uses slightly thicker plastic bags, and I've found that you con reuse them dozens of times; I've had the same bags in my car for over a year.

Unfortunately, when they deliver, they use brand-new bags, and they don't accept them back for reuse, so a lot of them get thrown away after a single use.