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Hang on to Your Firefox

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Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#331

Post by mmooss »

gboss wrote: post #58

I'm an avid Firefox user, but it seems that Firefox keeps getting worse. Pages forever load, when the issue does not happen in Chrome. History gets corrupted. Claude wouldn't load consistently if I had more than one tab of claude opened internal tools that used to work fine and we haven't updated struggle. I don't know if it's me but it's certainly maddening, especially when I go to Chrome on the same laptop and it j…

> Pages forever load, when the issue does not happen in Chrome.

A bit tangential, but that's not a meaningful analysis (depending on how you tested):

            FF    CHR

  Site 1    n     Y
  Site 2    Y     n
Imagine a Firefox user: They try site 1, see Firefox fail, and so they try Chrome and it succeeds. Then they try site 2, see Firefox succeed, and stop there. They never see Chrome's problem.

It's like what I've seen some DuckDuckGo users say about search engines: 'Google is better because when I can't find something on DDG I do find it on Google'. (I think there's also some confirmation bias with Chrome and Google.)

It's like the old sales technique of comparing your product's features with the other product:

               MyProduct  YourProduct

  Feature A     X           X
  Feature B     X
  Feature C     X           X
  Feature D     X           X
  Feature E     X
  Feature F     X
  Feature G     X           X
  Feature H     X           X
It doesn't show:

  Feature I                 X
  Feature J                 X
  Feature K                 X
  Feature L                 X
  Feature M                 X
  Feature N                 X
  Feature O

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#332

Post by glenstein »

kxrm wrote: post #252
8cvor6j844qw_d6 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I want to love Firefox, but it does not have the polish on Android compared to Chrome-based browsers.

> polish on Android Would you care to expand? I've been using Firefox on Android for years and haven't noticed a lack of polish. However, I am genuinely curious what I am missing out on.

Same, especially with the recent redesign I think it's actually super polished.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#333

Post by mmooss »

stephen_g wrote: post #303
999900000999 wrote: post #293

The issue is building a browser is not profitable by itself. You’d need to sell an annual subscription of 150$ to like 10 million people to get a browser that’s actually developed for users and not in some bizarre exploitive fashion.

The current spend on Firefox development is only about $290 million per year, not the $1.5bn you're talking about... But at the end of the day, it's not the amount of money that matters, it's the goals of the people running it.

> it's not the amount of money that matters

I think that matters quite a bit. Otherwise, if you've got a spare $1,000, build us a browser. Maybe vibe code it?

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#335

Post by glenstein »

bluGill wrote: post #101
jaggederest wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly and precisely why open source exists, for both the "never upgrade frozen version" case, and the extension into "fork it and make your own" case

Something like Firefox is so complex that I could not fork it and make my own. I mean, I could, but the amount of changes I could put in would be trivial unless I'm getting paid full time. Even if I was paid full time, realistically, one person paid full time, no matter how good, just can't make an impact in the browser today. I'm not paid full time to work on a web browser. As a volunteer, I can't find the time to d…

Finally someone talking sense. I understand forking if it's, say, a simple android app to view images, because the owner sold out and ads got put into a bunch of things that used to be a foss code base (coughSimpleMobileToolscough), but the actual task of forking and maintaining 30-40 million lines of code and weekly security updates is unrealistic. That intensive process effectively became Google's moat.

I actually think this is an interesting case for AI not being evil, because I think it's at least plausible that it could close the gaps between big dogs and little guys, though in the long run it might just prove to be another form of acceleration.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#336

Post by throwatdem12311 »

jaggederest wrote: post #79
nubinetwork wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope people here never stop bitching about Firefox. Its getting harder and harder, at some point they'll deprecate their last sane ESR, and we'll all get stuck with all their junk.

This is exactly and precisely why open source exists, for both the "never upgrade frozen version" case, and the extension into "fork it and make your own" case

You don’t want a “never upgrade frozen version” for a web browser that is terrifying.

Also without Mozilla (and Google’s funding), “just fork it and make your own” isn’t reasonable either.

If Mozilla/Firefox goes away, so do all those ragequit forks maintained by a group of people I can count on one hand.

It would be up to companies like Redhat, Suse and/or Canonical (preferably AND) to step in but realistically I don’t see that happening either.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#337

Post by mmooss »

_dark_matter_ wrote: post #292
autoexec wrote: post #53

> Meanwhile, the over thinkers on Hacker News come up with convoluted reasons to hate on Firefox every time the subject arises...Firefox is our last best hope for browser engine diversity and competition. It's exactly because Firefox is so important that you'll see people here complaining when Firefox does things to push away users like Mozilla buying up an ad-tech company, collecting data on users, and using firefox…

I worked at Mozilla for quite a long time. I can tell you that MANY employees will be reading every comment in this thread. Hello mozillians! Don't forget to do something good for the web tomorrow!

[flagged]

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#338

Post by glenstein »

autoexec wrote: post #275
nosioptar wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's still seamonkey, lynx, and I think emacs has a browser built in somewhere. Konqueror could be an option.

Eventually we'll have ladybird too

"When Ladybird comes out" is starting to sound like "when Star Citizen is released"

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#339

Post by canibal »

8cvor6j844qw_d6 wrote: post #218
Telaneo wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Firefox. It just doesn't always feel like it loves me back.

Same. I want to love Firefox, but it does not have the polish on Android compared to Chrome-based browsers.

But how could it possibly? For work, sure, this kind of minor efficiency means something, so I'll stick with Chromium-base. But for my own phone? This is like the exact type of thing that proves the monopolistic dark patterning. Personally, the modicum of convenience feels super short-sighted compared to the ethical/privacy hangover, not to mention the risk to future availability of a viable competitor.

Re: Hang on to Your Firefox

#340

Post by tiahura »

s3p wrote: post #302
stephen_g wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Firefox and I like it (especially being able to use uBlock Origin), but I really dislike what Mozilla has become over the last ten years or so. I think that's the key distinction, I can mostly manage Mozilla's crap by turning off a bunch of stuff in my Firefox settings, but I think it's really important for the web to not use a Chromium based browser.

But they have to make money. Else they go away. I don't understand how people think Mozilla can just exist and be permanently solvent forever

Linus manages.
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