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Dwarf Fortress' creator says the industry's in shambles over AI

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201–210 of 264 posts

Re: Dwarf Fortress' creator says the industry's in shambles over AI

#201

Love this quote, seems to apply to all software these days and maybe business generally: "They're trying to have a CEO press a button that makes a game, and then everyone else somehow buys it without a job."

If you take away the cynical edge, though, if this actually happens we're talking about an age of mom-and-pop businesses in industries that have not traditionally had them. It can't/won't be all software, but mom and pop stores were only about serving their neighborhood to begin with.

Re: Dwarf Fortress' creator says the industry's in shambles over AI

#202
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's we? You're certainly not speaking for me. Making things previously impossible possible? That's the business I joined. Destroying people's livelihoods without care for the consequences while pursuing monopolies, capturing the value as rent seekers, and ultimately enshittifying entire industries? Yeah, no, I know I didn't sign up for that, thanks. And if you're thinking "wait that's not AI". Yes. That's precisely…

That's honorable, but software has been used in no small way to disrupt traditional business. Uber. Doordash. Netflix. Tesla. Airbnb. Zillow. And yes, AI is coming for another round. It's a part of the culture. You can say that isn't what you signed up for, but I find it hard to believe that you don't know it's part of the culture you're participating in, which is the "we" here.

Maybe first define "participating" and then perhaps I'll respond.

Because if this a case of "well you use a computer so you're part of the system, man" then I probably won't waste my time. Cynical fatalism usually involves moving goalposts IME.

Re: Dwarf Fortress' creator says the industry's in shambles over AI

#203
post #68
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford's vision wasn't that much better. Old school manager controlled companies only work if the people in charge are great like him with big plans and the skills to realize them. If the CEO is just average it will end badly, and if they good but retire or die in office their successor will probably be worse. And it's extremely vulnerable to bad ideas that get amplified by wealth and power, like Ford's antisemitic pap…

> The best outcomes come from distributing power as widely as possible to people who are affected the most, aka worker ownership. Is there any evidence of this claim being true?

[deleted]

Re: Dwarf Fortress' creator says the industry's in shambles over AI

#204

Does it seem like companies just aren’t that well run anymore? I mean, companies seem to be having massive layoffs and placing ever more work on the remaining employees. At what point will the remaining employees just collapse? Are we just reverting to the mean after years of zero interest rate policy? Would love for folks with experience working in tech in the 90s and 00s especially to chime in.

I'll give you my diagnosis, which is derived from this: https://www.semafor.com/article/04/27/2025/the-group-chats-t... The thing to realize about the SV executive class is that they have constructed a closed ecosystem around them where they only talk amongst themselves and a small number of supporting actors who say what the execs need to hear. A CEO will talk to other CEOs he will not talk to his skip reports. Alte…

I find this a correct and astute observation, and I don’t think you’re getting enough credit for it. I started noticing this SV C level groupthink a few years ago too. It’s just so _weird_ how lockstep everyone is, it’s like there isn’t a single original thought amongst today’s leaders. Just copy, mimic, converge, repeat. Same ideas, same moves (layoffs of exactly 10-20%) same org structures (flattening!) same team structures (smaller teams with AI!) same same . It’s almost creepy, and if I was more of a conspiracy theorist it would be easy to believe in shadowy leadership cabals orchestrating everything.

It didn’t used to be this way - say circa 2006-2015 you had so much more diversity in the style and ideas of leadership. Eg early Dorsey, early zuck, all these other ceos at that time trying all kinds of wild and whacky ideas of how to run their companies. I’m not sure why this convergence happened, but now everyone’s singing from the same hymn sheet, it’s anti-innovation, and I hate it.

Re: Dwarf Fortress' creator says the industry's in shambles over AI

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>people are also demonstrably not that discriminating at what they spend their attention on now matter how unsatisfying the experience was, once it's spent it's gone I've refunded more games than I've kept on Steam over the past decade. While there's now a much wider pool of games, there's not necessarily a much deeper pool of games. Since trash sells and since marketing a game has been absurdly difficult recently, I…

What I’m really shocked is that mobile gaming is as dire as it is. My iPhone from some years back was capable of running full blown Civ6 and earlier total war games. Despite the hardware clearly being capable of running interesting, complex games, the market is dominated by shitty gacha games, copy paste puzzle games and scams.

I just wish there were an option to buy a game, like we used to. Now every mobile game seems to prefer you watch ads every 2 minutes with no option to pay to disable them.

There are even mobile ads for other games which proudly boast "no ads" and then they still have ads. Nothing has meaning anymore.

Re: Dwarf Fortress' creator says the industry's in shambles over AI

#206
post #72
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let it collapse get rid of patents and copyright. They are holding us back. People will assume that means that you can copy and distribute for free and profit without work. You already can. The business model will have to shift to collecting money BEFORE making something rather than trying to collect it AFTER making. You want a new Christoper Nolan film on his new idea, invest in it. That investment is a risk. Once m…

If you want to get rid of patents and copyright then entire industries would have to roll over and die (the music industry, publishing, Disney, etc). Also, people only invest in things if there is an expectation of profit. Your model for raising capital does not make sense.

> entire industries would have to roll over and die (the music industry, publishing, Disney, etc)

I'm not seeing a downside here. They are all predatory.

Re: Dwarf Fortress' creator says the industry's in shambles over AI

#207
post #128

When we've used software to disrupt other industries to deliver more with fewer people we called that a good thing. And it is, because consumers tend to win. Games are a hit-driven business, so they're going to feel the squeeze faster than, say, SaaS, but it's coming for all of us. Software is now being disrupted. Reap the whirlwind. I worked at a (very) well known media company in Hollywood during the Netflix disrup…

It's a huge mistake to think that indie teams would make better games if only they could balloon their projects to AAA-size. Some of the most meaningful and engrossing gaming experiences of my life have come from 1-3 person teams, especially over the past few years. Meanwhile, the vast majority of AAA titles just feel like time-filling entertainment chow to me: fun-shaped but ultimately pointless. I would strongly ar…

Which games we're those?

Re: Dwarf Fortress' creator says the industry's in shambles over AI

#208
post #64

1. Human attention is a finite resource. 2. Digital media allows a single authored work to consume the attention of an unbounded number of people with near zero marginal cost. Further, once a work has been authored, it is available to be consumed forever. 3. Computers, software, the web, and now AI have drastically lowered the cost to produce a work of digital media. You can't have fixed demand and have the supply in…

Let it collapse get rid of patents and copyright. They are holding us back. People will assume that means that you can copy and distribute for free and profit without work. You already can. The business model will have to shift to collecting money BEFORE making something rather than trying to collect it AFTER making. You want a new Christoper Nolan film on his new idea, invest in it. That investment is a risk. Once m…

Why would anyone want that model of consumption? It seems terrible. I don't want to invest in a director to make a movie I may or may not be interested in

Re: Dwarf Fortress' creator says the industry's in shambles over AI

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bungie, in its post-Halo standalone incarnation, was running a microtransactions empire from day one and funded itself on the debt owed by those; it was not ‘taken over’ by financial engineers, so to speak, because the call was coming from inside the house from day one. They executed on some very nice tricks to get funded but their business was operated consistently (impeccable scenic and gunplay, variable-quality st…

If that were true, then Bungie post-Halo would still be Bungie post-Halo, a part of Microsoft. Not Bungie post-Activision... certainly not Bungie post-Sony... It's not all the studio head's fault in some of these situations. It was larger studios/publishers like Microsoft Studios coming in and buying them out. The consolidation of these studios is what burned them.

The point here is that mergers and acquisitions are not the underlying cause of the problem. Yes, most M&A is private equity these days, but the problem with that is private equity. Yes, as the post we’re discussing suggests, most AAA gaming is in shambles after the hAIst of the century; blaming that on mergers and acquisitions needlessly excuses the leadership of the acquiring companies from their ultimate responsibility for the shambling. Consider ustwo: they’re employee-owned, a registered B corp, and are pivoting from employees to contractors because it’s more cheaper. One of the launch workers for that game described an event in 2014 that is an much earlier, pre-AI instance of the shambling:

> I remember having a call with a business partner just before Monument Valley came out. And they couldn't get their head around it. They're like, 'Right, so it lasts two hours, it doesn't have in-app purchases, it doesn't have leaderboards, it doesn't have adverts... Well, why are you making this again?' No one could get their head around it.

That their unicorn became real is in sharp contrast to how their business leadership thought it would go, and then they launched two sequels that were no more successful than the second and third Matrix movies. We were lucky that MV escaped containment. The studio was not threatened by mergers or by AI; it was threatened by bad management, who wanted to engineer the most financial profit rather than simply shipping a good game.

Yes, Ubisoft will fuck over everyone they buy. But that’s because Ubisoft is badly managed; consider the Crystal Dynamics Tomb Raider trilogy, widely considered excellent and preceded by their acquisition. Yes, it’s easier to place the blame on AI. But that’s because bad management is often greedy and miserly, and AI fits those desires like a glove.

This is no defense of Ubisoft or AI fucking over everyone, and I sure do loathe them both, but consider my point about Bungie in these terms: They took their own reins and mismanaged themselves into the ground, with a merger halfway through their decade that did not noticeably alter how they mismanaged their business. Bungie spent ten years doing strange financial engineering with multiple funding sources (Sony was merely the last one), locking the color palette picker behind cosmetic transactions, selling season passes and DLC, launching an entire sequel that bombed in year one because it removed the addictive loot box mechanism, and going so far as to delete one entire half of their world-class game rather than just refactoring it.

That’s bad management, and they’re a poster child for the entire gaming industry as a result. The financial engineering I’m blaming for this collapse, for these shambling monsters we’ve created — well, some would call it profiteering, but fintech has finops and findev, just like any other tech industry, and they engineered this outcome, so I’m simply giving them the courtesy of name that they deserve.

Re: Dwarf Fortress' creator says the industry's in shambles over AI

#210
post #93

The one that sticks out to me is the last quote lamenting the fact that you can't talk about AI in games any more since the term AI has been hijacked to mean LLM instead. I wonder how long it will take for job ads in the game industry to bifurcate into AI (LLM) developer and Behaviour (game AI) developer.

Unrelated but are there any games using LLMs or ML for the NPCs? I really want enemies that adapt to the player.

Related, but we've had multiplayer for decades now.
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