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Claude Fable 5.1 and Claude Mythos 5.1

anthropic.com

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Re: Claude Fable 5.1 and Claude Mythos 5.1

#511

Post by parineum »

ademup wrote: post #325
adastra22 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone working in science, this belief confuses me. How (by what means) do you think Fable 5.1 will be able to make further progress in scientific domains? The problem with science is that there is no agentic harness. The agent can't test things. At best it can hallucinate something and ask if that hallucination "makes sense", but this doesn't work in science.

Great news, then! TFA: "Last week, we previewed the Model Hardware Standard, which allows Claude to directly and safely operate laboratory equipment."

The bottleneck in science isn't ideas or human work speed. The bottleneck is resources and time to get experimental results.

LLMs, even in control of lab equipment, address neither of those.

Re: Claude Fable 5.1 and Claude Mythos 5.1

#512

Post by jaapz »

exceptione wrote: post #451
velcrovan wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a pet theory that the Opus prose style/smell we all have grown weary of is due at least in part to the models writing more for themselves and each other than for humans. They're packing lots of signal into fewer words and they don't care if it sounds cringe because it works better as glue in long-running tasks. I'm also thinking of the 2017 novel "Void Star" where AIs who operate everything have long since lef…

> They're packing lots of signal into fewer words FYI, these are so-called `load-bearing` words.

They help explain the blast radius

Re: Claude Fable 5.1 and Claude Mythos 5.1

#513

Post by torginus »

pixl97 wrote: post #174
velcrovan wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a pet theory that the Opus prose style/smell we all have grown weary of is due at least in part to the models writing more for themselves and each other than for humans. They're packing lots of signal into fewer words and they don't care if it sounds cringe because it works better as glue in long-running tasks. I'm also thinking of the 2017 novel "Void Star" where AIs who operate everything have long since lef…

>ceased bothering with human languages, Our current AIs would do this now except there is a lot of human pushback in training because of interpretability. Otherwise it's just an emergent behavior that models will encode shorter token strings to complex concepts because it saves tokens/compute when running making the system more efficient (supertokens). Of course these supertokens or other forms of language compressio…

My understanding is that current LLMs aren't really well suited to do this - tokens are predetermined, and while embeddings are learned, they are learned from an existing corpus of text, which presumably comes from a human language. After this point the language is locked in. There really isn't a kind of training which could efficiently change its embedding representation. I mean, you could probably instruct an LLM to design a more compact language, generate synthethic data and train a new gen on that, but that would be a fairly explicit process and not something that would emerge during training.

Re: Claude Fable 5.1 and Claude Mythos 5.1

#514

Post by sippeangelo »

mlaux wrote: post #46

Looks like all three breaking changes are patches for inadvertent chain of thought disclosure. Someone found out (don't have the tweet handy) that if you created a bogus "think_deeply" tool and then forced the model to use it, it would output what is believed to be its raw thinking there - I believe the first breaking change stops this. The second two are aimed at people getting Haiku to repeat thinking blocks from o…

These draconian "Preserved Thinking" measures they're taking are going to be an absolute pain in the ass. This alone is enough for me to move our API use off their platform entirely. It's a HUGE breaking change that they're trying to dampen by having it not affecting current customers until "in the future", see: https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/build-with-claude/preser...

You're no longer allowed to edit the context anywhere! The whole context is to become append-only, says Anthropic. No more editing the system prompt as the conversation progresses, no more dynamic loading of custom tool calling formats. Everything has to go through their built-in tools API and you aren't allowed to mess with anything in the context if it has any thinking blocks following it. This is the most intrusive "model DRM" we've seen so far!

Re: Claude Fable 5.1 and Claude Mythos 5.1

#515

Post by m3kw9 »

felixrieseberg wrote: post #69

(I work at Anthropic) Beyond all the benchmarks, I think Fable 5.1 is a big improvement in writing style. It sounds a lot less stereotypically like other Claude models, has (imho) a much more natural style, and responds to my style instructions more reliably. More work to be done (and we will!) but reading better prose makes me so much happier. Another point I expect not to get much attention until it all happens at…

I ain't wanna see anymore websites with "The SAAS that actually [italics]Works[\italics]"

Re: Claude Fable 5.1 and Claude Mythos 5.1

#516

Post by epolanski »

exabrial wrote: post #419

Anyone ever seen the SouthPark episode making fun of Game of Thrones: A Song of Ass and Fire? Anthropic's announcements reminds me of "The Dragons Are Coming" running joke. What they have done: * Nerfed Fable, as many of noted it's useless * Leverage Mythos as a marketing strategy, claiming its too good to release * Removed thought traces, one of the only useful things to make sure your prompts are working correctly…

While I also agree that Opus 4.6, in some ways, was the last model that truly felt an assistant, all the following ones seem to have inverted the role, even a blind person can see that throwing difficult problems, and complex bugs at this model achieves more than predecessors.

I don't think there's nothing ground breaking, but sure it achieves and finds more, sooner.

Re: Claude Fable 5.1 and Claude Mythos 5.1

#517

Post by hnarayanan »

crisnoble wrote: post #229
dmix wrote: post #214

I use Claude Design heavily, I wish these charts show "10% better at picking a color" or laying out an app. Maybe it's hard to build a good visual design test. Claude's good at layouts but not the colors or smaller design details.

It confuses "small details" with "tiny fonts".

Tiny mono fonts.

Re: Claude Fable 5.1 and Claude Mythos 5.1

#518

Post by nomel »

mattkevan wrote: post #315
velcrovan wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a pet theory that the Opus prose style/smell we all have grown weary of is due at least in part to the models writing more for themselves and each other than for humans. They're packing lots of signal into fewer words and they don't care if it sounds cringe because it works better as glue in long-running tasks. I'm also thinking of the 2017 novel "Void Star" where AIs who operate everything have long since lef…

I hate Opus 5’s writing style. It’s exhausting. Really hoping there’s a release that fixes it soon as I can feel my sanity slipping away as I try and parse what the hell it’s trying to say.

As others have mentioned, you can write a skill /explain that contains something like "You're not a tech bro. Write the previous answer like you're a professional developer speaking to competent colleague. No yapping."

Re: Claude Fable 5.1 and Claude Mythos 5.1

#519

Post by ThouYS »

andai wrote: post #475
ThouYS wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GLM 5.3-flash fits the bill

What is it equivalent to? What kind of things are you using it for? I haven't tested it yet but on all the benchmarks it looks like it's 5-7x slower for agentic tasks.

I made some webapps with it, and have it running my hermes agent (which also does a lot of coding, but not webapps).

Not sure what it's equivalent to, but it's super cheap and I am happy with the results

Re: Claude Fable 5.1 and Claude Mythos 5.1

#520

Post by kccqzy »

I’ll be very excited to try it out and see the actual improvement in writing style. The denser writing style probably won’t bother me.

Anthropic seems to be listening to community complaint on HN about how the writing style is grating. And apparently the solution from Anthropic is to add this block to every conversation!?

> Mannered prose substitutes metaphor and flourish for direct statement. Instead of "a parameter worth varying," the mannered writer produces "a dial worth turning." Instead of "this point still matters," they write "this point earns its keep." The phrases exist to display the writer, not to convey the idea, and readers can tell. That is why mannered prose irritates: it makes the reader work harder so the writer can perform. It is also imprecise. Metaphors drag in connotations the writer did not choose and cannot control. The fix is to say what you mean. When a literal phrase is available, use it.

The above was quoted verbatim from https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/build-with-claude/prompt...

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