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Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

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Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#171

Post by palata »

maybewhenthesun wrote: post #127
pyrophane wrote: post #8

GrapheneOS actually recommends against using Aurora and instead just using the Play Store, so this shouldn't really hurt users. For extra privacy, you can sign into the Play Store with a Google Account that isn't tied to anything else.

The main reason for me to use GrapheneOS would be to sever the umbilical cord to google. I don't really see the point of using GrapheneOS instead of Stock Android if I then have to use the play store.

Better security, for once. You get (security) updates a lot faster with GrapheneOS.

Also on GrapheneOS, Play Services and Play Store come unprivileged, sandboxed like any other app. So Google is not an admin on your phone, which I would argue is one step towards "severing the umbilical cord".

Moreover, GrapheneOS doesn't have any issue with apps sideloading.

And more. There are many reasons to use GrapheneOS.

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#172

Post by cf100clunk »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #138

Looks like I might start using Aptoide again. I was using it back when I was running de-Googled LineageOS. What's the consensus on it vs. Play Store or F-droid? https://en.aptoide.com/

For F-Droid apps I don't use their app. I use Neo Store with the Guardian and IzzyOnDroid repos.

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#173

Post by palata »

dingaling wrote: post #80
Cider9986 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GrapheneOS is focused on privacy but that must come from a secure baseline. GrapheneOS is much more privacy focussd than any other mobile operating system. Accrescent is the end goal for a secure and private app store but it's still in alpha. GrapheneOS is also the best for degoogling (eliminating all google services) because it comes with zero Google services unlike all the other ones listed here: https://eylenburg.…

The problem is that to achieve privacy through security, Graphene has to treat the user as a potentially hostile actor. Therefore, the system needs to protect itself and other apps from the user. Which is very much contrary to software freedom.

> Which is very much contrary to software freedom

I believe you misunderstand what "software freedom" means. You can compile and install GrapheneOS yourself, and you can grant yourself admin access. This is software freedom.

Software freedom does not mean that you should run everything as an admin, always. And just in case: software freedom does NOT mean that you should remove your firewall and let everybody SSH into your server by having a blank password.

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#174

Post by andrepd »

pyrophane wrote: post #8

GrapheneOS actually recommends against using Aurora and instead just using the Play Store, so this shouldn't really hurt users. For extra privacy, you can sign into the Play Store with a Google Account that isn't tied to anything else.

[flagged]

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#175

Post by Ajedi32 »

palata wrote: post #173
dingaling wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that to achieve privacy through security, Graphene has to treat the user as a potentially hostile actor. Therefore, the system needs to protect itself and other apps from the user. Which is very much contrary to software freedom.

> Which is very much contrary to software freedom I believe you misunderstand what "software freedom" means. You can compile and install GrapheneOS yourself, and you can grant yourself admin access. This is software freedom. Software freedom does not mean that you should run everything as an admin, always. And just in case: software freedom does NOT mean that you should remove your firewall and let everybody SSH into…

You can't grant yourself admin access with the official build. Only the Graphene devs have the ability to push changes to the OS on your phone. Yes you can fork the software and build a version with your own signing key, then wipe your phone and install your custom build and thereby take back control, but then is that really still Graphene?

I think it's fair to say that that's at least borderline anti software freedom, even if it's true they have good security reasons for doing things that way.

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#176

Post by steelframe »

khriss wrote: post #63
pyrophane wrote: post #8

GrapheneOS actually recommends against using Aurora and instead just using the Play Store, so this shouldn't really hurt users. For extra privacy, you can sign into the Play Store with a Google Account that isn't tied to anything else.

> you can sign into the Play Store with a Google Account that isn't tied to anything else. The problem with this is that increasingly Google is insisting on having a phone number to create a Google account. Further, they are aggressively deleting old accounts that appear to be dormant. The good old days of creating a Google account with just an email seem to be swiftly becoming a thing of the past.

I recently had to set up a new Android device for work. Since I keep all my personal accounts separate from my work accounts, I needed to create a new Google account on that phone. I ended up paying $8 for a month of the cheapest service I could find just to get a phone number so I could create that account.

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#177

Post by xingped »

cf100clunk wrote: post #169
xingped wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've honestly never understood why F-Droid even still exists. Every time I've tried to use it (as recently as half a year ago) it's still a shitshow and never displays or updates apps correctly. Half the time an app showed up on the website that didn't show up on the phone app. The other half of the time even when I did get something installed, it would just never understand that an update existed and needed to downl…

Have you tried Neo Store for accessing F-Droid and other repositories? In particular, I use the IzzyOnDroid F-Droid and Guardian Project repos.

I have not, but honestly, at this point, I just don't really care anymore. I can only try and be rebuffed by a product so many times.

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#178

Post by Ajedi32 »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #175
palata wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is very much contrary to software freedom I believe you misunderstand what "software freedom" means. You can compile and install GrapheneOS yourself, and you can grant yourself admin access. This is software freedom. Software freedom does not mean that you should run everything as an admin, always. And just in case: software freedom does NOT mean that you should remove your firewall and let everybody SSH into…

You can't grant yourself admin access with the official build. Only the Graphene devs have the ability to push changes to the OS on your phone. Yes you can fork the software and build a version with your own signing key, then wipe your phone and install your custom build and thereby take back control, but then is that really still Graphene? I think it's fair to say that that's at least borderline anti software freedo…

Thinking about possible ways they could retain the same security properties without impinging software freedom... maybe there's a way they could make the root of trust default to a signing key embedded in the device's own secure hardware? Then by default that key could sign Graphene's own signing certificate to allow them to push updates, but the user would retain the ability to revoke that signature and sign someone else's certificate instead (or their own certificate) if they decided they didn't trust Graphene anymore, or wanted to give themselves root.

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#179

Post by welwala »

ravenstine wrote: post #131
pyrophane wrote: post #8

GrapheneOS actually recommends against using Aurora and instead just using the Play Store, so this shouldn't really hurt users. For extra privacy, you can sign into the Play Store with a Google Account that isn't tied to anything else.

GrapheneOS (the project) might recommend for or against certain things in relation to their specific objectives, but that doesn't mean all GrapheneOS users have the same objectives or need to comply with the opinions of GrapheneOS. For instance, I use GrapheneOS because it provides better security and privacy out of the box than LineageOS, but I'm also not so paranoid that I'm going to just blindly listen to advice a…

Yes, F-Droid and its apps are great And yeah the iris scans sound like a scare but only 2 years ago there was a constant line of zombies here in the shopping mall giving their eye scans to altman.

The masses really don't care about privacy if you give them a worthless trinket.

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#180

Post by attila-lendvai »

pyrophane wrote: post #8

GrapheneOS actually recommends against using Aurora and instead just using the Play Store, so this shouldn't really hurt users. For extra privacy, you can sign into the Play Store with a Google Account that isn't tied to anything else.

i don't even have google play serices installed, let alone the play store...
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