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AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

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Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#221

Post by echelon »

drnick1 wrote: post #215
bad_haircut72 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Youtube just now I got hit with an ad whose first 5 unskippable seconds were an AI person saying "Did you know the cure for dimentia is in the Bible!?!?" - considering who that ad is targetting, Google can F off with any stance about protecting people from scams.

Use NewPipe and you won't see an add ever again.

That's good, but don't forget that the point is that Google's pearl clutching about security doesn't apply when they are making money. They'll sell you straight to scammers if it makes them money.

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#222

Post by Defenestresque »

dataflow wrote: post #4

> Play billing "must not be used in cases where payments include … tax exempt donations" > Note: 501(c)(6) is a tax-exempt status; donations are not tax-deductible for the donor. Google's communications explicitly state "tax-exempt". Isn't it pretty obvious that the problem is the donations aren't tax-exempt, despite the organization being tax-exempt? Your note suggests you already understand this. Logically, the pay…

So we don't devolve into semantics, I am just going to use the term "special tax status" to denote anything thab the regular payment flow. I'm doing that on purpose, because part of the argument is that tax exempt and tax deductible are different things. Your argument, as far as I understand, does not actually rely on this distinction. It just comments on it.

I read your comments and what I ended up inferring was that it relies on a few premises:

1. Google states in their policy that their billing platform cannot be used for [special tax status]. 2. Google would be presented with an undue burden if they had to alter their processes to process donations with [special tax status], which may potentially involv extensive manual review manually. 3. Therefore, despite the wording, the rules and undue burden are clear that you cannot use Google Play billing for [special tax status].

I've read the rest of your comments downthread and I think that I'm representing your position accurately. Again, if I'm not, I legitimately want corrections.

The issue with going from the premise to the conclusion is that if you look at their actual payment flow to the Open Collective it seems to be just a webview to their donation page. I mean, it doesn't look like Google's payment flow at all and I'm pretty sure Google doesn't accept ACH payments directly.

If Google wants to avoid extra work, they literally just can do nothing about it and the donations on that page will go to a tax exempt organization.

I'm going to take a look at the rules right now and either update this comment or reply to it. (Sorry, I figured I would post it because I'm not sure when I would be able to post another.)

P.S. I probably should have out of this to the top, but I do want to mention that several people pointed this out in the comments but I wanted to be a bit more specific about the payment flow, and what we're actually debating.

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#223

Post by ranger_danger »

megagpt2 wrote: post #172
skeledrew wrote: post #39

Apps need to exit the Play Store. I have a whole slew of apps which haven't been updated for a while now because Aurora Store isn't working because of whatever Google of doing. Meanwhile the ones installed via FDroid and other means are perfectly up to date. It's a crappy state of affairs as Google continues to close the boiling Android frog.

Apps can only exit the store after users do.

Not everyone publishes apps to make money or get the highest number of users though.

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#224

Post by mvdtnz »

notatoad wrote: post #136
skeledrew wrote: post #39

Apps need to exit the Play Store. I have a whole slew of apps which haven't been updated for a while now because Aurora Store isn't working because of whatever Google of doing. Meanwhile the ones installed via FDroid and other means are perfectly up to date. It's a crappy state of affairs as Google continues to close the boiling Android frog.

if i had a commercial app that i wanted to distribute off the play store, what are the options?

Build it on the web. Almost no software needs to be in an app.

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#225

Post by majorchord »

renegat0x0 wrote: post #55
skeledrew wrote: post #39

Apps need to exit the Play Store. I have a whole slew of apps which haven't been updated for a while now because Aurora Store isn't working because of whatever Google of doing. Meanwhile the ones installed via FDroid and other means are perfectly up to date. It's a crappy state of affairs as Google continues to close the boiling Android frog.

I think there are more and more apps on f-droid. On my end the experience was more pleasant on f-droid than on Google. On f-droid I had to manually push some things, in repositories. That I solved in a week or so. On Google end I had to verify my account. Which was not easy feat. - had to provide my ID several times, because it got rejected multiple times - I uploaded driving license - the verification process was st…

There are downsides to F-Droid too: https://www.privacyguides.org/en/android/obtaining-apps/?h=f...

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#226

Post by rangerelf »

brainwad wrote: post #7
amiga386 wrote: post #6

Not Google's first rodeo. They pulled the same move in 2019: https://www.phoronix.com/news/WireGuard-Ejected-Play-Store This is why software should not be subjected to an "app store" type distribution system, where a monopolist retains absolute control of what software can run on your devices, and can capriciously deny distribution to developers for whatever reason it likes.

You can install from other stores (AnkiDroid is on F-Droid, for example), or from direct file download on Android already. The problem is rather thay most users just use the store preinstalled on their phone as part of Google's deal with OEMs to bundle Google Play Services. So either you follow Google's rules, or you lose all the users who don't want to leave the walled garden, even though they can.

No, you can't; not without jumping through hoops, not without clicking on fake warnings, not without a song and a dance about fake "saving you from scammers" scare tactics.

Please stop covering for Google. They're behaving badly, people are reacting, stop with the "Achucally..." which is pretty grating and cringe worthy.

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#227

Post by abd-nh »

orsenthil wrote: post #204

Just remove the open collective link. Point to your homepage where the motivated donors will certainly pay. You already should know how many of the motivated users actually care about donations. The goal of this story and publishing it in HN seems to catch more eyeballs and marketing of Ankidroid, under new leadership. All I am suggesting is, just play along with Google. No harm here. I am sorry, if I am wrong. Happy…

AnkiDroid is still independent and is not managed by a new leadership like the computer app, if that's what you're suggesting.

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#228

Post by rangerelf »

dataflow wrote: post #33
amiga386 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- the "24 hours" is Google's first formulation of plausible deniability. They've likely done testing to hone that number to find a sweet spot. - the "24 hours" is enforced by remotely-run code, meaning Google remains in control of it and can unilaterally alter how this works, any time they feel like. Imagine you went to the shops, and found that one shop, while it had the goods on display, and could totally just let…

> On what planet do you think anyone other than the most dedicated of dedicated people would choose the shop that requires waiting a whole day to use it when the alternative has no such restriction ? I have no clue what you're referring to or worried about here, could you clarify? Are you worried Android is going to lose power users to iPhone? What are the alternative shops you're referring to here? We're not buying…

> Are you worried Android is going to lose power users to iPhone? What are the alternative shops you're referring to here? We're not buying pastries.

Are you 13 years old? Who in their right mind would even care that "all the power users" went and bought iPhones? Are thoughts like this keeping you up at night?

> I don't know if people's imaginations are lacking here, but there could easily be a world in which your 'alternative' verifier would still make you wait 24h (or longer).

It's your imagination that's failing; we don't want ANY verifier at all, whatsoever. Nobody should be able to reach into my phone OS and have a say regarding what I can install or not.

> The wait is clearly a security mechanism, regardless of who makes you do it.

"Security mechanism" to protect WHO from WHAT, exactly? And please don't repeat the drivel about scams that Google's pushing, we all know those are excuses, "It's for the CHILDREEEENNNN!!!!" sure.

> or is your actual problem the identity of the entity making you do it, or is your actual problem that the power is too concentrated in one entity, regardless of the entity? These are very different issues with very different solutions.

So you DO know what's going on! In that case I have no idea why you're arguing in favor of having a gate placed in front of our [personal, owned] phones to regulate what we do with our own devices.

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#229

Post by charcircuit »

neves wrote: post #94

Digital infrastructure became so important that it must be regulated. We can't leave app stores at the whim of mega corporations.

Just because Google built something valuable that doesn't mean the government should take control of it. This line of reasoning also leads to the government taking over YouTube and changing the rules there due to how "important" it is.
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