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Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

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Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#91

Post by seany »

unrented7977 wrote: post #89
DaSHacka wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think there's already a lot of us in the 'community' as-is. I personally describe it as 'Valuing Privacy/Freedom over Security'. One pretty clear example of this is how they don't recommend using FireFox Mobile and F-Droid, both of which I use regardless because I'm not willing to put up with worse privacy/usability tradeoffs in the name of (imo 'hyper-')security. I think it's fine the mission of the proje…

This is the exact reason I quit using Graphene. It felt exactly like selling out control of my device to the Graphene devs in the same way a stock phone is controlled by Google. Far, far too "opinionated" for my taste. I frankly do not need the hyper paranoid security features like a hardened memory allocator or disabled root. I would rather be able to use my device the way I want , even if that's notionally "less se…

[flagged]

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#92

Post by slome »

pyrophane wrote: post #8

GrapheneOS actually recommends against using Aurora and instead just using the Play Store, so this shouldn't really hurt users. For extra privacy, you can sign into the Play Store with a Google Account that isn't tied to anything else.

A Google account is a personal identifier, it is linked to your person. Therefor trying to untie it from anything else is futile.

Google states: Using a false name or incorrect information when creating a Google account is against Google's Terms of Service.

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#93

Post by weezing »

talon8635 wrote: post #26
armadyl wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you create it on a stock Pixel device the phone requirement gets dropped.

It’s undoubtedly tied to the phone with is tied to the owner

How is your phone tied to you? You bought it through GOogle store?

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#95

Post by ranger_danger »

megagpt2 wrote: post #40
ranger_danger wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does one even create a new google account in $current_year without requiring phone verification or worse?

You could suck it up and do the phone number verification, it usually costs around $5 for a phone number. Or you could go through the android phone sign-up process which doesn't require one. Buy a cheap android phone and keep resetting it and making a new account each time. Or you could buy an account on the grey web from someone who already did this. Should be under $2. If you are really into this you could become a…

The whole point of avoiding the verification in my case is for privacy reasons... I don't want google or anyone else tracking what I do through the use of an account.

> Or you could go through the android phone sign-up process which doesn't require one

This is worse IMO because now the number is associated with that device forever. And unless I'm willing to risk my account to compromise from a future owner of the same number OR device, I must now keep both... forever.

> grey web

I don't want to give them my info either, nor have my account associated with sketchy individuals.

> you could become a phone company

I do own DID blocks but this is unhelpful because google's verification specifically requires SMS over real mobile numbers, and I'm not interested in becoming an MVNO or cellular carrier.

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#96

Post by catlikesshrimp »

ssernikk wrote: post #69

I maintain my grandmothers phone, which comes down mostly to just updating WhatsApp once in a while. Obviously she doesn't have a google account, so I've installed her AuroraStore. It's a shame that there is no official way to install apps on android without a google accout[1], since it's a basic functionality, just like calls or a web browser. [1] For obvious reasons I don't want her to download apks from the intern…

I am in the same boat. Keep in mind that you are trusting both google and meta. At least you can update whatsapp once every three months (for now)

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#97

Post by catlikesshrimp »

lenerdenator wrote: post #64

[flagged]

AOSP is still open. The problem is nobody wants to bear the (monumental) cost of polishing and convincing brands to allow installing it in THEIR devices. Google was motivated back then for creating an alternative and openness was a good bait.

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#98

Post by exceptione »

nickspacek wrote: post #68
asnelt wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't immediately find whether GrapheneOS grants READ_PRIVILEGED_PHONE_STATE to Google Play. It might very well be that the GrapheneOS sandbox spoofs a fake IMEI, and I do hope so. In any case, my parent comment was meant for stock Pixels, as mentioned by armadyl further up in this thread.

https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play > Google Play receives absolutely no special access or privileges on GrapheneOS as opposed to bypassing the app sandbox and receiving a massive amount of highly privileged access. It doesn't mention IMEI here, but hopefully READ_PRIVILEGED_PHONE_STATE is included in "privileged access."

There is an AppStore app, I am not sure if this is the one we are talking about? https://github.com/GrapheneOS/AppStore/blob/main/app/src/mai...>

That one lists:

  ACCESS_NETWORK_STATE
  ENFORCE_UPDATE_OWNERSHIP
  FOREGROUND_SERVICE
  FOREGROUND_SERVICE_SPECIAL_USE
  INSTALL_PACKAGES
  INTERNET
  POST_NOTIFICATIONS
  QUERY_ALL_PACKAGES
  RECEIVE_BOOT_COMPLETED
  REQUEST_DELETE_PACKAGES
  REQUEST_INSTALL_PACKAGES
  UPDATE_PACKAGES_WITHOUT_USER_ACTION

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#99

Post by alt227 »

iririririr wrote: post #32
armadyl wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accounts created on stock Pixels don’t require phone numbers.

that haven't been true since pixel 4. it just picks your phone in the background. a burner sim, like a literal criminal, is the only way today.

Its possible to set up a phone with a google account without even a sim card in it and use it as a wifi only device, so Im pretty sure what your saying is wrong.

Re: Play Store blocks AuroraStore, hurting GrapheneOS users

#100

Post by mindslight »

exceptione wrote: post #52
asnelt wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with a burner sim, there is the International Mobile Equipment Identity (IMEI) number, which is tied to the phone, and is known to all apps with the android.permission.READ_PRIVILEGED_PHONE_STATE permission.

That can't be true? https://grapheneos.org/faq#hardware-identifiers > As of Android 10, apps cannot obtain permission to access non-resettable hardware identifiers such as the serial number, MAC addresses, IMEIs/MEIDs, SIM card serial numbers and subscriber IDs. Only privileged apps included in the base system with READ_PRIVILEGED_PHONE_STATE whitelisted can access these hardware identifiers. Apps targeting Android 1…

That's the application software side. I would assume the IMEI and IMSI are both going out to the cell network though, and I would presume that it's trivial to tie a phone number to those with how the mobile industry generally sells subscriber data to various data brokers. The only question is how permissive those data brokers are (their major constraint is how much most people become aware of this dynamic), but when dealing with a major APT like Google I'd assume they're tuned into the best ones with songs about bona fide purposes.
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