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Ubisoft's FOR HONOR will block SteamOS / Linux players starting September 10

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Re: Ubisoft's FOR HONOR will block SteamOS / Linux players starting September 10

#101

Post by john_strinlai »

happymellon wrote: post #99
john_strinlai wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> account for their mistake in selling you the game. i hate ubisoft as much as the next person, but if they listed the game as only supporting windows when it launched, and someone bought it for linux despite it not being supported, ubisoft did not make a "mistake" in selling the game to them. the buyer made a decision to purchase the game for an unsupported system. (the rule i follow, which hasn't gone wrong yet, is…

I would deserve a refund because it doesn't work for me. If I buy a shirt, all stores that I go to allow me to return the shirt, or exchange it for store credit. If I go to a grocery store and get the wrong bag of granola, I able to return or exchange it. The question is why Ubisoft deserves special treatment and gets to keep your money if you return it.

>I would deserve a refund because it doesn't work for me.

do you not believe in any sort of personal responsibility? on the same page as the "buy" button, it tells you that the game only supports windows.

>If I buy a shirt, all stores that I go to allow me to return the shirt, or exchange it for store credit.

if you wear it for 9 years, then try to return it, they will say no.

Re: Ubisoft's FOR HONOR will block SteamOS / Linux players starting September 10

#102

Post by john_strinlai »

happymellon wrote: post #100
john_strinlai wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I paid for a product and I did not get it you paid for a windows product. the product still works on windows, right? if ubisoft advertised linux support for this game, i am 100% with you on the refund. as far as i can tell, they did not. they advertised the game as a windows product.

I don't need to claim false advertising to get a refund for literally any other product, so this argument doesn't hold any water.

like every other product you had a refund window.

you can't buy a shirt, wear it for 9 years, then return it.

Re: Ubisoft's FOR HONOR will block SteamOS / Linux players starting September 10

#103

Post by Hikikomori »

mihaelm wrote: post #47
Ithildin wrote: post #33

Going forward, I simply will not be purchasing any game that does not work on Linux. I realize that I'll be missing out on some titles, but Windows simply isn't worth the headache. CachyOS has been working great for me. Proton has been amazing. I have had zero problems with the games I typically play -- some of which are multiplayer. Luckily, I have not run into anti-cheat issues yet.

I'm pulling for Microsoft to create an XboxOS for PC you can just freely install on any machine, as that's about the only thing I care about regarding Windows. Then I could see myself dualbooting that when I want to play my Xbox collection. And it'd be nice to build a beefy machine to max them out on, once the PC component prices settle a bit. They're playing with that with the Xbox Full Screen Experience on ROG Xbox…

This might be what steamos becomes. Fully controlled and can only run games and some software like discord.

Re: Ubisoft's FOR HONOR will block SteamOS / Linux players starting September 10

#104

Post by flaunf221 »

happymellon wrote: post #94
flaunf221 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> made a change specifically to run on the steam deck No, they didn't, you don't need to lie. From your url: > EASY ANTI-CHEAT > Updated Easy Anti-Cheat client module and library. > Developer's Comment:* This update of Easy Anti-Cheat makes the game playable on Steam Deck.* That is not "we made a change to specifically run on deck." Steam deck support might be accidental side effect of them getting newer anti-cheat t…

What's up with people on here being jerks and saying > you lie! It's becoming more common, and I know I'll downvote anything that says it because it isn't constructive. Back to the point, the quote definitely says to me that they support Linux other why mention that the game is playable on Steam Deck?

> why mention that the game is playable on Steam Deck?

Because it became playable? And now it's not. System requirements are still the same. You can see them on game purchase page.

Re: Ubisoft's FOR HONOR will block SteamOS / Linux players starting September 10

#105

Post by Insanity »

stackghost wrote: post #59
Insanity wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobara Linux, which is based on Fedora. I used the "Gnome" installer rather than "official" because I still want a regular desktop experience. I've been on Linux for development since 2008 as well so I wanted an "all in one" OS this time rather than dual-boot Linux/Windows. I'm running this on AMD CPU & GPU (because AMD historically was always better supported than Nvidia). I've not run into any issues the past weeks…

>What kind of issues are you running into with Bazzite? It's just a mess. There are three different ways to get software, so despite being a seasoned Linux user of 20+ years I'm never really sure if I'm installing something via the happy path or not. I wanted to install Battle.net, for example, and the best/only way I could get it to work is by following some random forum post to run battle.net as a steam app, so if…

If your sample set is Battle.net games, could be an issue with Battle.net. I've not tried any Battle.net games so can't compare with Nobara.

I think we might both be dealing with a skewed sample set haha, given I only really played 1 game and had no issues.

Re: Ubisoft's FOR HONOR will block SteamOS / Linux players starting September 10

#106

Post by aruametello »

netsharc wrote: post #13
thrownawaysz wrote: post #7

Valve can't even make their own anti cheat system work (VAC) on Windows let alone on Linux so not surprised that 3rd party publishers with 3rd party anti cheat system is giving up. I mean they technically work as a software but they don't fullfil their purpose, to block cheaters.

I suppose the only good solution is like those "game streaming services": move all the logic to the server and use the client only as a rendering device. Even sending metadata so the client can use local sprites to render the enemy is hackable, if the end-user knows the coordinates where to render the enemy, it can immediately tell the server that "user aimed at $COORDS and pulled the trigger"...

i find it quite amusing that some people forget that opensource software is a double edge sword in these cases.

> "why can we run windows games the way we want and often better than windows?"

its because we can fiddle with anything in the system, from even before the kernel boots up to the software itself.

> "why cant we stop people tampering with their own systems to stop cheating?"

its because we can fiddle with anything in the system, from even before the kernel boots up to the software itself.

but my addendum is:

> I suppose the only good solution is like those "game streaming services": move all the logic to the server and use the client only as a rendering device.

we are in the "dark ages" of AI/computer vision usage and this wouldn’t stop aimbots that are screen readers. Overall the proposal is the "lesser evil" but still quite fucking evil.

Re: Ubisoft's FOR HONOR will block SteamOS / Linux players starting September 10

#107

Post by ben-schaaf »

altairprime wrote: post #90
flaunf221 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> made a change specifically to run on the steam deck No, they didn't, you don't need to lie. From your url: > EASY ANTI-CHEAT > Updated Easy Anti-Cheat client module and library. > Developer's Comment:* This update of Easy Anti-Cheat makes the game playable on Steam Deck.* That is not "we made a change to specifically run on deck." Steam deck support might be accidental side effect of them getting newer anti-cheat t…

“Steam Deck” here means Steam Deck booted into Windows but not Steam Deck booted into Linux, I thought?

No, it means Linux. They enabled the easy anti cheat flag to allow running on Linux.

Re: Ubisoft's FOR HONOR will block SteamOS / Linux players starting September 10

#108

Post by bigyabai »

altairprime wrote: post #83
trashb wrote: post #34

This is funny since they are literally using "Easy Anti Cheat" and that fully supports Linux. From what I understand Easy Anti Cheat, makes it very easy for developers to run on Linux, basically it is a compile setting to support it. It is one of the anti-cheat providers that had decent Linux support since the beginning. Back before Proton and when it was new developers often denied requests for turning on Linux supp…

EAC is functionally useless on Linux and can be defeated by anyone with the ability to sudo or to boot a modified operating system. Steam Linux does not supported sealed/signed boot with secure attestation, and supporting 1% market share options that do (if any) is unrealistic for developers, so it’s perfectly sensible for PvP multiplayer games to ban Linux users. Not out of malice or disrespect but out of simple tec…

> Steam Linux does not supported sealed/signed boot with secure attestation

Even if it did, you wouldn't stop DMA cheaters from hacking the game. This is the slippery slope we see on Windows with Ring 0 anticheat being defeated with spoofed PCI hardware.

Re: Ubisoft's FOR HONOR will block SteamOS / Linux players starting September 10

#109

Post by buzer »

altairprime wrote: post #91
buzer wrote: post #74

Someone in EU should try to make a complaint to the local authority who is enforcing ePrivacy Directive regarding anti cheats in general. Despite what people think ePD isn't limited to cookies and rather also applies all data read or stored in "terminal equipment" via use of electronic communications networks. I would say anti cheat should usually qualify. If they want to do it without consent then they need to show…

For anyone pursuing this, consider that the EU age verification apps are the EU’s first foray into digital anti-cheat systems at population scale. If you take the time to research how those are being designed and implemented and incorporate awareness of their work into your complaint about anti-cheats in gaming , your missive will be a lot more likely to strike the target and be taken seriously.

The age verification is it's own can of worms. I'm currently waiting for my native country (but not the one where I reside) to actually publish their wallet implementation. I'm planning to make complaint around it because the whole thing almost certainly breaches ePD. ePD's exceptions are actually for "information society service" rather than just any service. The ISS itself has it's own sets of requirements, but the important one here is that "normally provided for remuneration". Service provided by government as part of their public duty almost never fulfills that requirement.

So in order to store or read data they would need consent. But consent requirements come from GDPR and it's unlikely that this type of consent would be "freely given" given the impact of refusal.

Re: Ubisoft's FOR HONOR will block SteamOS / Linux players starting September 10

#110

Post by altairprime »

buzer wrote: post #109
altairprime wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone pursuing this, consider that the EU age verification apps are the EU’s first foray into digital anti-cheat systems at population scale. If you take the time to research how those are being designed and implemented and incorporate awareness of their work into your complaint about anti-cheats in gaming , your missive will be a lot more likely to strike the target and be taken seriously.

The age verification is it's own can of worms. I'm currently waiting for my native country (but not the one where I reside) to actually publish their wallet implementation. I'm planning to make complaint around it because the whole thing almost certainly breaches ePD. ePD's exceptions are actually for "information society service" rather than just any service. The ISS itself has it's own sets of requirements, but the…

From a technical standpoint, there’s no functional difference: without secure boot and OS attestation, age verification is as ineffective as EAC on Linux, because you can simply `insmod GameGenie.ko code=A456-GH4C` to have your mobile device simulator kernel patch success into any challenge. At the surface level they’re different — one is PvP, the other is PvG, one uses webcams for Twitch, the other uses webcams for facial recognition — but the same set of kernel defenses enable both.
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