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AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

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Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#151

Post by KPGv2 »

ajross wrote: post #120
skeledrew wrote: post #39

Apps need to exit the Play Store. I have a whole slew of apps which haven't been updated for a while now because Aurora Store isn't working because of whatever Google of doing. Meanwhile the ones installed via FDroid and other means are perfectly up to date. It's a crappy state of affairs as Google continues to close the boiling Android frog.

This just should not be the top comment here. HN being HN, it's way, way too bent out of shape about the company name attached to the app store and not the minutiae of tax policy, which is what this is really about. The app in question declares itself this way: AnkiDroid is a free, open-source flashcard app for Android with over 10 million installs, used worldwide for various purposes, primarily in medical education…

> The bottom line is that Anki's lawyers messed up.

Anki and Ankidroid are not the same entity and they have different owners, if you want to call it that.

Anki is owned by Nicholas Flint, a physician who sells med school-related decks online under the name AnKing, which controls Ankihub, which now controls Anki after the original founder (Damien Elmes) gave them control about six months ago.

Ankidroid is a non-profit project that arose when there was only an iPhone mobile version of Anki. Completely unrelated to Anki except that it was blessed by the original creator of Anki.

It's also just some nerd programmers who ported Anki to run on Android. It's not some org with a revenue stream and attorneys.

> Obviously we're all reading this expecting that Anki is a 501(c)(3) charity

No, no one is reading it thinking that Anki is a charity.

Anyway, when you are going to harp on about HN not caring about the minutiae of tax policy, you should make sure you understand that you're talking about two unrelated entities run by different people as if they were the same entity.

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#152

Post by Ajedi32 »

echelon wrote: post #104
renegat0x0 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are more and more apps on f-droid. On my end the experience was more pleasant on f-droid than on Google. On f-droid I had to manually push some things, in repositories. That I solved in a week or so. On Google end I had to verify my account. Which was not easy feat. - had to provide my ID several times, because it got rejected multiple times - I uploaded driving license - the verification process was st…

F-Droid is a nerd solution and will be used by 0.00001% of the total market. There are more people that will use Linux on desktop than will use F-Droid. We need governments to mandate both Apple and Google to allow web installs of apps. No requirement for Apple/Google pay, Apple/Google login, or Apple/Google services. Total freedom for users, for developers, and for competitors. This duopoly has fucked over America a…

Google already allows web installs on Android, no regulation required. But yes, iOS allowing that would be excellent.

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#153

Post by notpushkin »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #88
Ajedi32 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a user perspective I think F-Droid is really good too, mainly because it only allows FOSS apps by default, which cuts out a lot of the BS you see in Play Store apps. You can go download a random, no-name app from F-Droid and be very confident it does what it says on the tin and won't be riddled with ads or spam you with notifications.

Thats the only reason for at least me to use f droid and I have for the last decade I think. It "just works". As opposed to play store apps requiring "play store services" meaning having to sign into play store. It refuses to do so on a FOSS principle so I am literally cut off from a lot of apps. Aurora store helps but apps that "require play store services" don't work.

> "play store services" meaning having to sign into play store

Not necessarily. Most apps that require Play Services should work fine even if you’re not logged into Google. You do, however, have to have the “gapps” installed. (Some apps would also actually check whether you’ve installed them from the Google Play store and not, say, Aurora, but from my experience most don’t bother.)

Also, perhaps look into microG? It reimplements the Play Services APIs, but is FOSS and only connects to Google servers when it’s necessary for some functionality (e.g. if you enable push notifications): https://microg.org/

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#154

Post by KPGv2 »

varispeed wrote: post #57
skeledrew wrote: post #39

Apps need to exit the Play Store. I have a whole slew of apps which haven't been updated for a while now because Aurora Store isn't working because of whatever Google of doing. Meanwhile the ones installed via FDroid and other means are perfectly up to date. It's a crappy state of affairs as Google continues to close the boiling Android frog.

Crappy state of affairs is that the tax payer funded regulators twiddle their thumbs and do nothing about it. Corporation like Google should have been fined to the edge of bankruptcy for such predatory behaviour.

We Americans collectively voted for this for decades. Virtually everyone who has cast a ballot for a national race has voted for this state of affairs.

Especially in the software community, overwhelmingly self-described libertarian, all voted for this.

It takes a big government to stop this from happening. (It also takes a big government to stop structural racism, etc., which means higher taxes, which means there's no such thing as a fiscal conservative who is also socially liberal. But I digress.)

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#155

Post by imglorp »

echelon wrote: post #104
renegat0x0 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are more and more apps on f-droid. On my end the experience was more pleasant on f-droid than on Google. On f-droid I had to manually push some things, in repositories. That I solved in a week or so. On Google end I had to verify my account. Which was not easy feat. - had to provide my ID several times, because it got rejected multiple times - I uploaded driving license - the verification process was st…

F-Droid is a nerd solution and will be used by 0.00001% of the total market. There are more people that will use Linux on desktop than will use F-Droid. We need governments to mandate both Apple and Google to allow web installs of apps. No requirement for Apple/Google pay, Apple/Google login, or Apple/Google services. Total freedom for users, for developers, and for competitors. This duopoly has fucked over America a…

Android is Google's billboard/surveillance tool they've invested deeply in.

Why on earth would they let anyone else participate?

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#156

Post by ajross »

KPGv2 wrote: post #151
ajross wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just should not be the top comment here. HN being HN, it's way, way too bent out of shape about the company name attached to the app store and not the minutiae of tax policy, which is what this is really about. The app in question declares itself this way: AnkiDroid is a free, open-source flashcard app for Android with over 10 million installs, used worldwide for various purposes, primarily in medical education…

> The bottom line is that Anki's lawyers messed up. Anki and Ankidroid are not the same entity and they have different owners, if you want to call it that. Anki is owned by Nicholas Flint, a physician who sells med school-related decks online under the name AnKing, which controls Ankihub, which now controls Anki after the original founder (Damien Elmes) gave them control about six months ago. Ankidroid is a non-profi…

> Anki and Ankidroid are not the same entity

So... why is one soliciting donations on behalf of the other?! My Fraud Meter is rising, not falling here.

> It's also just some nerd programmers who ported Anki to run on Android. It's not some org with a revenue stream and attorneys.

"Just Some Nerd Programmers" don't, very obviously, have standing to solicit tax exempt donations. Rising further still...

I think a lot of people here are operating on the assumption that apps have the inherent right to ask for money on a proprietary platform that gives them a monetization path. They don't, on any such platform, and never have. There are specific carveouts allowed by the platform vendors for cases we all agree are valuable, like charitable donations. It's just really clear that Anki is playing games here and frankly I really doubt they qualify.

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#157

Post by bunderbunder »

lokar wrote: post #114
SigmundurM wrote: post #28

> Donations are not tax-deductible > Because we are a 501(c)(6), OSC is not a registered 501(c)(3) charity; donations to hosted member projects are not tax-deductible. This is consistent with IRS guidelines — open source donations aren't automatically classified as charitable simply because they are FOSS. > If your project has a clear charitable purpose, a 501(c)(3) fiscal sponsor may be a good fit. - https://docs.os…

But the recipient of the donation is tax exempt, which is what Google says the requirement is.

IANAL, but it seems like the wording in the public-facing version of the policy is a little muddy. As far as I'm aware, "tax exempt donation" not a thing that actually exists in US tax law. It seems to be a conflation of "tax deductible donation" and "tax exempt organization".

Knowing how big corporations do things, that document was likely written by someone who doesn't fully understand the jargon or even how pedantic you have to be about words when dealing with legal concepts, who didn't set the policy themself, and who is not responsible for enforcing the policy. So we should take its specific choice of words with a grain of salt.

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#158

Post by nottorp »

PufPufPuf wrote: post #126
nottorp wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UE should make it mandatory to permit PWA install popups on all platforms. "It works better in the app?". No thanks. In 99.95% of cases the reasons for that popup are predatory, not in the interest of the user.

PWAs are not much more than webpages, basically just a separate launcher icon and less browser chrome making it look and feel more native. It's in the user's best interest to use these, since they get the good parts of using an app while avoiding full-featured-app junk like persistent background services that constantly monitor you.

> PWAs are not much more than webpages

... when I want them. Not when the site owner tries to cram them down my throat.

How would you like it if HN and every link you followed today from HN started with an "install me" popup?

The point is it's something the user should initiate, and no one else.

Re: AnkiDroid: Google Play no longer allowing Open Collective donation link

#159

Post by gumby271 »

stavros wrote: post #141
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imo if you compare what Google does to the one other mobile OS manufacturer with any users, claiming Google should be fined is something like the cop pulling you over for going 8 over the speed limit while Apple is doing triple digits and just ran two people over. 'Why not both' is an argument, but clear as day what Apple does is worse. There's no alternative.

Ironically, Apple allows alternate app stores in the EU now, while Google is moving to disallow them everywhere.

I don't think Google is moving to disallow them, it's more that the EU said that it's fine for Apple to still own app notarization / developer verification even outside of Apple's app store. Google saw this and said, cool, we'll add that to Android too so we can also get our (undeserved) cut outside of the Play Store. I can install F-Droid or anything else, but if they dont submit papers to Google, I get a big scary warning when I install it (I get the same scary warning if a developer distributes apps through F-Droid, but doesn't verify with Google, which is ridiculous too). On iOS if I don't submit to Apple I cant do anything.

It all sucks, and I'm not saying this is a good thing. But Google and Apple are both trying to position themselves as not having monopolies on store fronts, while still forcing notarization and verification to run through them independent of the store being used. And the EU seems fine with this for some insane reason. Google isn't trying to be worse than Apple, they're trying to match Apple.

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