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I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

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Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#221

Post by Tangurena2 »

wbl wrote: post #161
ceejayoz wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'll notice that the aircraft carrier continues sortie generation. No, it doesn't. It's now in Thailand for R&R, then back to base in the US, because of this issue. https://apnews.com/article/thailand-singapore-us-aircraft-ca... > What's causing us to lose is failure to achieve victory due to the means employed… Right. We're being too restrained. That's some Vietnam War era cope you're huffing.

In the Vietnam war the US didn't win because it couldn't, no matter how much force was employed. Here same thing: we can't depose the Iranian government without a land invasion (which is too costly) and nothing else keeps them from having control of the strait.

The US was fighting the wrong war in Vietnam. The Vietnamese wanted independence since the 1920s. The US didn't. The French didn't (the second time). The Japanese didn't. The French didn't (the first time).

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#222

Post by cjrp »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #218
CobaltFire wrote: post #67

As someone who spent over 20 years active duty, and spent a ton of my career in the IT, security, etc. side of the house: Unlikely to be a hack, more likely to be a misconfiguration or update sent incorrectly. That said, the timing of the disclosure and the issue are rather concerning. Regarding the highest value targets to hit with an attack like this, you would want to target Guam, Hawai'i, and other isolated overs…

I'm also reminded of the HPE SSD time-bomb bug which would cause catastrophic failure after exactly 32,768 hours of use[1]. Could there be a common denominator in when these refrigerators went online? [1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/hardware/hp-warns-that...

787s too https://www.theregister.com/software/2020/04/02/boeing-787s-...

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#223

Post by tyrabound »

CobaltFire wrote: post #67

As someone who spent over 20 years active duty, and spent a ton of my career in the IT, security, etc. side of the house: Unlikely to be a hack, more likely to be a misconfiguration or update sent incorrectly. That said, the timing of the disclosure and the issue are rather concerning. Regarding the highest value targets to hit with an attack like this, you would want to target Guam, Hawai'i, and other isolated overs…

That is also likely true, i.e., misconfiguration, but this is not a "military freezers hacked" story, it is a story of many different controllers of many different refrigeration company products being "hacked" through the humongous barn doors they all have wide open.

It's really just bad journalism.

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#224

Post by HPsquared »

trhway wrote: post #219
fifilura wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use a ship.

better the best of both worlds - flying boat like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_314_Clipper Giving how static bases (including airstrips) have become vulnerable, i think we may yet to see those flying boats coming back as a way to support Navy fleets which historically were relying on the static bases.

That could be a different navy concept if surface carriers go extinct. You could have submarines and (possibly submersible) seaplanes, and submarine-launched UAVs.

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#225

Post by sjducb »

ericmay wrote: post #70
CobaltFire wrote: post #67

As someone who spent over 20 years active duty, and spent a ton of my career in the IT, security, etc. side of the house: Unlikely to be a hack, more likely to be a misconfiguration or update sent incorrectly. That said, the timing of the disclosure and the issue are rather concerning. Regarding the highest value targets to hit with an attack like this, you would want to target Guam, Hawai'i, and other isolated overs…

Generally agree with your assessment, but in the case of Guam or other more remote installations if there were catastrophic issues we'd just airlift food in. Costly but certainly manageable. Hawaii I'm not sure why that would be an issue unless the whole island was attacked or shut down. Even if the on-base shops were hacked you could just go shop at Wal-Mart or Costco or any number of other locations on the islands.…

Manageable during peacetime.

In a war with another major power resources would be stretched thin and depriving bases of food would reduce combat effectiveness.

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#226

Post by gwbas1c »

phil21 wrote: post #158
gwbas1c wrote: post #43

To summarize for people who TLDR: 14 freezers failed at the same time. They are all internet-controlled, and failed at the same time as a disclosure about a vulnerability . They all failed by turning on the defrost cycle and heating food. Regardless if this was a hack or a bug, the bigger lesson is that overcomplicated systems fail in catastrophic ways. Why do military commissaries need remote-controlled freezers? It…

Could also just be a bunch of IoT devices running on synchronized time source that have what amounts to a defrost cronjob. And a latent bug that due to everything being synced and on the same schedule failed in the same manner (eg crashed the controller immediately after turning the heating element on and either didn’t boot back up or booted and some shitty programming forgot to check the heating element status). Sav…

IE, a quickly applied patch that failed.

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#227

Post by ericmay »

sjducb wrote: post #225
ericmay wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally agree with your assessment, but in the case of Guam or other more remote installations if there were catastrophic issues we'd just airlift food in. Costly but certainly manageable. Hawaii I'm not sure why that would be an issue unless the whole island was attacked or shut down. Even if the on-base shops were hacked you could just go shop at Wal-Mart or Costco or any number of other locations on the islands.…

Manageable during peacetime. In a war with another major power resources would be stretched thin and depriving bases of food would reduce combat effectiveness.

Sure but that won't happen in Guam or Hawaii. Guam would be evacuated first.

Also these same things apply to any other major power (perhaps more so) who would also see their resources stretched then and their bases deprived of food to reduce combat effectiveness.

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#228

Post by lenerdenator »

edoceo wrote: post #97
lenerdenator wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That someone can be brought into an office and shown a small diagram of the approved network topology. Then they can be shown a small diagram of the current network topology. Next, they can be asked if they're the same. If they're not, they can finally be asked if they're aware that deviating from the approved network topology without consulting infosec is grounds for termination of their employment.

Bunch of assumptions about operational excellence in there. Doesn't match my experience but, it does match my desire.

You have to be the change you want to see in the world.

We often forget this, but computer software and hardware are engineering disciplines. Part of engineering is knowing when something's bad and telling the person who asked you to do that something that you won't do it. In the civil engineering world, this means you might have to just walk away from the project and blow a whistle before people get hurt or killed. It's time to normalize that in IT.

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#229

Post by ericmay »

cyanydeez wrote: post #91
ericmay wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally agree with your assessment, but in the case of Guam or other more remote installations if there were catastrophic issues we'd just airlift food in. Costly but certainly manageable. Hawaii I'm not sure why that would be an issue unless the whole island was attacked or shut down. Even if the on-base shops were hacked you could just go shop at Wal-Mart or Costco or any number of other locations on the islands.…

With the current admin, assumptions about capabilities are just wrong. One of the reasons for consitency above all else is to use the power of history. Ahistorical is now the defacto standard. All asdumptions about America power are toilet paper.

For this to be true it would also mean that assumptions about capabilities in a negative light are also wrong. If one were to say the US is extremely weak, that would be an assumption about a capability that is now by your decree also just wrong.

In other words, this comment is rather meaningless when read plainly - I mean that factually, not as an insult.

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#230

Post by ericmay »

wbl wrote: post #161
ceejayoz wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'll notice that the aircraft carrier continues sortie generation. No, it doesn't. It's now in Thailand for R&R, then back to base in the US, because of this issue. https://apnews.com/article/thailand-singapore-us-aircraft-ca... > What's causing us to lose is failure to achieve victory due to the means employed… Right. We're being too restrained. That's some Vietnam War era cope you're huffing.

In the Vietnam war the US didn't win because it couldn't, no matter how much force was employed. Here same thing: we can't depose the Iranian government without a land invasion (which is too costly) and nothing else keeps them from having control of the strait.

It's not really the same thing. I really do not at all understand why folks see any sort of military intervention that isn't over in 5 minutes as "the next Vietnam". Venezuela was going to be the next Vietnam too. It's like "the next 2008" all over again espoused as a traumatic, quasi-religious point of view. Rather interesting from a cultural evolution standpoint - seems to be that some folks can't shake a trauma so they just keep going back to it even when it's no longer important or relevant for current decision making or situations.

The public being against the war is just about where the comparison between the war in Iran and Vietnam loses meaning.

The United States doesn't need to depose the current Iranian government on its own. An economic blockade could do that, or at worst simply deprive the Iranian government of the means to financially carry out war. As Iran is now finding out, the Strait wasn't quite the leverage that they, and pundits and internet commentators thought it was, and now the US isn't even interested in negotiating which is causing Iran to lash out. It'll be a slow, but certain death to the economy and such an event and blame rests squarely on the shoulders of those in charge of Iran and their idiotic and undemocratic beliefs. The world can't be held hostage and won't be. Though of course the fact that the United States yet again has to go police the world is a bit like a reservoir that slowly refills. There's only so much we're going to be able to do and we're seeing ongoing populist MAGA and DSA backlash against the war. The next crises the US may not be able to respond to politically and then we're in relationship trouble.

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