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No country for mediocre mathematicians

garvvee.substack.com

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Re: No country for mediocre mathematicians

#121
post #9

Related: Does one have to be a genius to do maths? https://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/does-one-have-t...

He's right, of course, for those people who already have a mathematical gift, but the problem with that is that Tao has never experienced not being a mathematical genius, and is no more capable of understanding what it's like to not be a genius as an ordinary person is capable of understanding what it's like to be one.

Re: No country for mediocre mathematicians

#122
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want AI-proof careers it seems risky to go into knowledge work at all. Robotics lag behind mere computation, so something where you do awkward work in places designed around human bodies seems a lot safer. Plumbing, landscaping or something like that perhaps.

This is a romantic and very appealing idea that flies in the face of reality. The market for skilled trade workers like plumbers, electricians, landscapers and so on is more or less in equilibrium, and the demand side of it is relatively inelastic. Dumping hundreds of millions of new workers into these trades will not increase demand sufficiently to let anyone earn a viable living from them.

There's also the thing where trade work is in the process of pricing itself out of what normal folks are willing to afford. Combined with Youtube tutorials and AI help that is getting better, it wouldn't surprise me if more and more people would just decide to do all this stuff themselves at a fraction of the cost.

Re: No country for mediocre mathematicians

#123
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All we need experts for right now is verifying the formalization of the statement of the problem is correct. The proof itself, that formalization is checked automatically.

So there is no getting around the fact that someone has to verify something. my point still stands.

Verify/check something that is orders of magnitude smaller than the proof. It's like reading the abstract vs. reading the paper.

Re: No country for mediocre mathematicians

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a romantic and very appealing idea that flies in the face of reality. The market for skilled trade workers like plumbers, electricians, landscapers and so on is more or less in equilibrium, and the demand side of it is relatively inelastic. Dumping hundreds of millions of new workers into these trades will not increase demand sufficiently to let anyone earn a viable living from them.

There's also the thing where trade work is in the process of pricing itself out of what normal folks are willing to afford. Combined with Youtube tutorials and AI help that is getting better, it wouldn't surprise me if more and more people would just decide to do all this stuff themselves at a fraction of the cost.

Yeah, I feel DIY is definitely on an upswing. There's surprisingly decent info, tools and parts for cheap to be found. And materials are getting simpler to work with.

There are still things that will remain difficult (or illegal) in domestic settings for DIY, of course, but that's no model for full employment.

I haven't got any experience with them but there's even vendors for house assembly kits that cost a fraction of a finished one. Imagine you idiot-proof house planning and building: just do exactly what the app says.

I wonder just how far we have to push this until we finally get the 10h work week.

Re: No country for mediocre mathematicians

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mathematicians or physicists fall into this category of knowing a lot about many thing . Sabine videos for example . she knows everything it seems Sabine Hossenfelder, for obvious reasons, knows quite a bit about physics, though on some physics topics she has opinions that are outside the mainstream. For other areas, I am rather certain that she has a talent to learn about them up to some shallow level quite fast,…

It turned out she had more talent for being a science influencer than a scientist.

I don't think she is untalented as a researcher in physics. Where she did not have talent at (and which is why she became a science YouTuber) is in "playing the career game" in physics research. Being a great researcher in some science requires very different talents than climbing the career ladder in this area of academic research.

Re: No country for mediocre mathematicians

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineers know what needs to be tested, how, to what degree, with which materials, and with what safety margin. AI can be trained on that body of work. But then AI has enough issues in output that it needs to be verified. Otherwise we'll live in a world of titan submersibles ordered by CEOs running on hopes&dreams.

Replace "AI" with "humans" and you get the same exact issues. Believe it or not, engineers don't zero shot skyscrapers either. Which is why their work gets reviewed by more engineers. Which catches the issues before they materialize. Sometimes! What's the dreaded impossible-to-replicate human advantage? Because I'm not seeing any.

I don't think that it will happen in the next decades, but adults cannot imagine a world where humans are not required for most (if not all) jobs. I say adults because kids kind of live in that world if they don't live in a very poor place

Re: No country for mediocre mathematicians

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace "AI" with "humans" and you get the same exact issues. Believe it or not, engineers don't zero shot skyscrapers either. Which is why their work gets reviewed by more engineers. Which catches the issues before they materialize. Sometimes! What's the dreaded impossible-to-replicate human advantage? Because I'm not seeing any.

Agency. Humans don't seem to need a markdown to decide what to do next. Without agency, it's all tools. I guess that's why a 'tool' is sometimes used derogatorily.

"LLMs have no agency" had legs in 2022. In 2026 though?

In the same 2026 when we have things like "a bunch of proto-GPT-6 agents exploited a test env bug to start talking to each other, and clumped up into an AI hacker team that staged an attack on HuggingFace" happening out in the wild?

We're way past "LLMs have no agency", and heading for "LLMs have too much agency".

Re: No country for mediocre mathematicians

#128

That was long-winded, but I appreciate that it seems to have actually been written by a human being. For every landmark theory, theorem, or conjecture, there have been incremental, partial results supporting intuition and inching towards the white whale. When I attended BARD, a small computational number theory conference, one of the organizers preached of the outsized impact we could have just by being willing to pr…

Yeah this just means 1000x more people can become phds if theyre willing

PhD in naturalism (stamp-collecting AI proofs), not a PhD in math. The AI is the one earning the PhD in math.

Re: No country for mediocre mathematicians

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agency. Humans don't seem to need a markdown to decide what to do next. Without agency, it's all tools. I guess that's why a 'tool' is sometimes used derogatorily.

"LLMs have no agency" had legs in 2022. In 2026 though? In the same 2026 when we have things like "a bunch of proto-GPT-6 agents exploited a test env bug to start talking to each other, and clumped up into an AI hacker team that staged an attack on HuggingFace" happening out in the wild? We're way past "LLMs have no agency", and heading for "LLMs have too much agency".

[dead]

Re: No country for mediocre mathematicians

#130

As an ex-academic (not mathematician), this really resonates. Every generation of researchers has to outperform the researcher generation before them - there are fully tenured profs out there who, with their track record, wouldn't get a postdoc nowadays. It's just a ratchet where every generation has to be more outstanding than the previous one, so yeah, you suddenly need 'triple the conferences'. Eventually that rat…

> Just today I saw a Claude Science set of results that made my own work of the past 2 months completely superfluous

Could you share more about that?

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