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Has early Scratch experience led to fulfilling careers?

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Re: Has early Scratch experience led to fulfilling careers?

#41

Post by modeless »

jkahrs595 wrote: post #32

This is like asking if anyone in the Tour de France has credited training wheels for their success. I would never credit my Visual Basic class in middle school for my career but it did introduce me to a lot of things I didn’t know about before, and certainly wasn’t a net negative.

More apt than you intended. Training wheels actually make it harder to learn how to ride a bike. I think this is what Carmack is implying about Scratch. I'm sure he would rate VB much higher than Scratch as an intro to programming.

Re: Has early Scratch experience led to fulfilling careers?

#42

Post by zephen »

burnto wrote: post #33
bigyikes wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The snarky analogy doesn’t really really work because plenty of people actually do credit video games for their successful career, myself included. Thanks, Roblox.

And plenty of great authors start with fanfic. Like actually. But apologies the snark landed that way. I was not intending to diminish people learning via game modding at all . What I found irritating in the post is the premise that what we put in front of kids should be judged by counts of attributions to career success.

> What I found irritating in the post is the premise that what we put in front of kids should be judged by counts of attributions to career success.

For a start, that's effectively the premise it's sold on. And for another thing, if it's not contributing to the kind of thinking that would help with that job, what is it other than another esoteric game?

Re: Has early Scratch experience led to fulfilling careers?

#43

Post by cedws »

When I was at school I never really saw the tools intended to get kids interested in CS work out. In fact, many of my classmates began to hate programming because of the Python coursework we had to do. (terrible language choice for classes by the way, because beginners don’t understand how to indent their code and Python is unforgiving in this regard.)

Re: Has early Scratch experience led to fulfilling careers?

#44

Post by Swizec »

jkahrs595 wrote: post #32

This is like asking if anyone in the Tour de France has credited training wheels for their success. I would never credit my Visual Basic class in middle school for my career but it did introduce me to a lot of things I didn’t know about before, and certainly wasn’t a net negative.

> This is like asking if anyone in the Tour de France has credited training wheels for their success.

And yet every F1 driver credits gokarting for their career. Laying the groundwork in your early years makes a big difference. My career would be very different without Logo and Turbo Pascal

Re: Has early Scratch experience led to fulfilling careers?

#45

Post by burnto »

GroksBarnacles wrote: post #28
burnto wrote: post #23

I still see picture books as an introductory path to literacy for kids, but unlike posting fan fiction on AO3, I have never heard a “success story”, where someone credits their early experience with picture books as key to a fulfilling career. Anyone?

I still see mashed peas as an introductory path to solid food for kids, but unlike attending Montessori schools, I have never seen a "success story", where someone credits their early experience with avant-garde curriculum as a key to a fulfilling career. Anyone? Same distance, from A to B to C. Thanks for wasting all of our time with you comment.

The absurdity is the point. Comparing the merits of scratch vs game modding in children’s eventual programming career success is such a silly overly serious adult thing to do. If kids experience fun and exploration while learning along the way, that’s what matters.

Re: Has early Scratch experience led to fulfilling careers?

#46

Post by burnto »

zephen wrote: post #42
burnto wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And plenty of great authors start with fanfic. Like actually. But apologies the snark landed that way. I was not intending to diminish people learning via game modding at all . What I found irritating in the post is the premise that what we put in front of kids should be judged by counts of attributions to career success.

> What I found irritating in the post is the premise that what we put in front of kids should be judged by counts of attributions to career success. For a start, that's effectively the premise it's sold on. And for another thing, if it's not contributing to the kind of thinking that would help with that job, what is it other than another esoteric game?

There are many things that no one will think to later attribute to “career success” that were in fact foundational to their learning and development.

In my experience it’s designed around a make/build/experiment pedagogical approach, not as a bootcamp system to get kids into programming careers

Re: Has early Scratch experience led to fulfilling careers?

#47

Post by parineum »

I had never heard of scratch before but I find this line of thought generally backwards. Maybe that's what carmack is getting at but it seems to me that early "exposure" doesn't really matter as much as people want it to.

There is so much software all around us these days, any curious kid who's interest is piqued by it will find a way in to the hobby and maybe to a career.

There was a period where having a computer in a classroom was a big deal because it might be a kids only exposure to one but that's not the case today (not everywhere, I know). Kids pursue their interests if they can and software is very easily pursuable these days.

Re: Has early Scratch experience led to fulfilling careers?

#48

Post by dmkolobov »

andai wrote: post #13
outlore wrote: post #3

I used scratch in cs50 to make a music platformer. I would say it led me down a career in computing

What's a music platformer?

I don't know about the parent's project, but bit.trip runner immediately comes to mind for me!
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