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Since it was stripped of planetary status, Pluto’s defenders have been fighting

theguardian.com

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Re: Since it was stripped of planetary status, Pluto’s defenders have been fighting

#91

Post by jsbisviewtiful »

lenerdenator wrote: post #39
jsbisviewtiful wrote: post #21

In case anyone was curious, the Moon is bigger than Pluto. Pluto's 2/3 the size of the Moon. If any dwarf planet should be upgraded to a planet, it's Eris. Eris's diameter is over 600km bigger than Pluto's.

Aye, but what does Pluto orbit, and what does the Moon orbit?

In order to be defined as a planet, an object needs to meet 3 criteria:

- Orbits a star (Pluto does and I assume that's what you were asking about)

- The object has enough mass to pull itself into a sphere (meets this criteria)

- The object has enough gravity to have cleared its nearby orbit of debris and other objects

Neither Pluto nor Eris qualify for a planet because of that last one and, like I mentioned, the Moon has more mass than Pluto and Eris. The Kuiper belt objects all have this issue, but my point was that dwarf planets are pretty small - especially compared to other objects around Sol. If you walked non-stop around the Moon it would take 91 days compared to Pluto's 62 days and Eris's 61 days.

The designation of dwarf planet is not that big of a deal imo.

Re: Since it was stripped of planetary status, Pluto’s defenders have been fighting

#92

Post by wat10000 »

odyssey7 wrote: post #68
hn_submit wrote: post #9

I'm in the same camp. I believe the classification of Pluto as a dwarf planet was arbitrary and inconsistent. I mean, it's been known as a planet for almost 80 years and suddenly we demote it? I believe someone was trying to make a name for themselves here and ignoring the history of Pluto and its discovery.

> someone was trying to make a name for themselves 100% Scientists try to coin new terms all the time. It’s great for the researcher if people actually use it. But why do that when you can just sign your name on a term everyone already uses? Redefining “planet,” from the 9 culturally accepted symbols into something else, was a swindle. “Things that clear their orbits” could have been TTCTOs. It happens all the time,…

A swindle, really? Who got cheated out of money?

Re: Since it was stripped of planetary status, Pluto’s defenders have been fighting

#93

Post by Aachen »

Oarch wrote: post #11

Back in school I learned the acronym: My Very Easy Method Just Speeds Up Naming Planets And it was so convenient! Does anyone know a good alternate now that the P is gone?

I think of them more as by properties: Mercury hasn't even an atmosphere, it's too close to the sun; Venus is a hot earth so it sits closer than us; then comes its sister planet Earth; Mars is cool by comparison and sits further away than we do. Jupiter and Saturn are harder but sit before the ice giants Uranus and Neptune, again making logical sense. Whether Jupiter or Saturn comes first, I guess there's some memorisation, with or without some sentence about it

Re: Since it was stripped of planetary status, Pluto’s defenders have been fighting

#94

Post by bob1029 »

Planktonne wrote: post #30

The actual problem here is weirdly aggressive nerds who are incapable of nuance, and insist that an astronomical classification (Pluto is not a planet by the IAU definition) should be used in non-astronomical contexts. Historically and culturally, Pluto is considered a planet. An IAU classification shouldn't be used to try and retroactively change that, because the IAU does not have control over history and culture.…

> The actual problem here is weirdly aggressive nerds who are incapable of nuance

This is the actual problem everywhere.

Re: Since it was stripped of planetary status, Pluto’s defenders have been fighting

#95

Post by Aachen »

baggy_trough wrote: post #85
orwin wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why 1000 km radius? I know that 1000k diameter might be important for cold bodies to keep their equilibrium, but what does 1000km radius give? Because honestly anybody who played stuff like KSP RSS or any space game taking place in our solar system represented at scale with adequat orbit weirdness probably told themselves "that's Pluto? Ok i get it, not a planet".

It's just a nice round number to use as a clear boundary.

Why not just have it be rounded under its own gravity? Collapse two rules into one. If nice round systems with clear boundaries is what you're going for

Re: Since it was stripped of planetary status, Pluto’s defenders have been fighting

#96

Post by derbOac »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #22

The main objection to calling Pluto a planet appears to be that if Pluto is a planet then up to about 200 other objects should also be called planets, that the list would be of unknown size and regularly changing. That's an objection? No, that's a benefit! I think it'd be awesome to be regularly discovering new planets.

That's sort of what bothered me the most at the time. It seemed like the argument was that it was "emotional" or something to keep Pluto a planet when there might be so many of them. But I never understood why it was less "emotional" to insist that a planet be a certain size or that there should be a certain number of planets.

Re: Since it was stripped of planetary status, Pluto’s defenders have been fighting

#97

Post by autoexec »

odyssey7 wrote: post #63
ketzu wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how happy each group would be by this solution. Planet as a scientific and non-scientific usage. Conclusively, science class would not teach Pluto as a planet (it should after all stick to the science) and English class will discuss the cultural impact of planet Pluto! Maybe write poems about the importance and impact of 9 word mnemonics? Sounds fun. My headcanon is that people would hate it so so much! I ca…

This would be a really good discussion topic in schools. People need to understand the dynamic between science and society, because that is an important part of how the world works today. Pluto is an exemplar. And also, the value of culture. It might not be a scientific result, but it still shapes our experience of the world. Pluto is beloved.

Pluto makes for a great lesson about science itself. Our view of the universe we live in changes over time as we get more information about it. Children should learn to expect that and to understand that it isn't a bad thing, or a flaw with science, but a vital part of the process and when it happens things are working as intended. That means that today Pluto isn't a planet, even though for a small time it used to be considered one, because we learned more about the bodies in our solar system and it no longer made sense to call Pluto a planet. We can explain to children why it shows up in our history, and how we've moved on.

It honestly doesn't have to be a bunch of drama. The problem will pretty much go away after the current generation who grew up learning about Pluto as a planet dies off and gets replaced by a generation who always knew that there were only 8 planets in our solar system. Hopefully they'll also be better prepared to accept changes that come from better understanding.

Re: Since it was stripped of planetary status, Pluto’s defenders have been fighting

#98

Post by [deleted] »

drxzcl wrote: post #7

> “One of the biggest flaws with the IAU definition is that you can have the same object in two different orbits,” says Kornfeld. “In one, it’s considered a planet, and in the other, it’s not considered a planet.” So… planet Ganymede when? Or Titan?

[deleted]

Re: Since it was stripped of planetary status, Pluto’s defenders have been fighting

#99

Post by odyssey7 »

autoexec wrote: post #97
odyssey7 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be a really good discussion topic in schools. People need to understand the dynamic between science and society, because that is an important part of how the world works today. Pluto is an exemplar. And also, the value of culture. It might not be a scientific result, but it still shapes our experience of the world. Pluto is beloved.

Pluto makes for a great lesson about science itself. Our view of the universe we live in changes over time as we get more information about it. Children should learn to expect that and to understand that it isn't a bad thing, or a flaw with science, but a vital part of the process and when it happens things are working as intended. That means that today Pluto isn't a planet, even though for a small time it used to be…

I appreciate your contribution to the discussion. I’d have to point out that Pluto both is and is not a planet, depending on the context — it depends on whom you ask and the situation in which you ask.

What would you say to scientists and laypersons who consider Pluto to be a planet? How would you persuade them to your own viewpoint? Please give at least three examples and use at least three paragraphs.

Re: Since it was stripped of planetary status, Pluto’s defenders have been fighting

#100

Post by d--b »

Humanity's need to categorize things never ceases to amaze me.

Is it Art? It's not Art! Are bananas a vegetable or a fruit? Pluto definitely is a planet! No it's not!

Jesus, what a waste of energy.

Are we just realizing that asteroids come in all sizes? Do we really need a sharp boundary between those we call planets and those we don't call planets?

Can we consider planethood a spectrum? Like should we REALLY care if someone says there are 9 planets in the solar system, and the next person says 8?

We used to say there were 3 oceans, now there are 5. In reality, there's just one big saltwater lake. Do people fight about where one ocean ends and where the next one starts?

Let them call pluto a planet if they want, let them call pluto a kuiper object.

We shouldn't give a fuck.

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