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Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

wsj.com

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Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#31

Post by vablings »

juliusceasar wrote: post #3

Those cheap GPS jammers, which sites should I avoid to not buy them by accident?

It's not rocket science to make a GPS jammer. GPS Spoofing is more complex and causes way more damage or chaos. I would seriously avoid touching this subject whatsoever this is the kind of thing that will have the FBI and FCC so far up your ass you will feel it in the back of your eyeballs. On the off chance the feds don't catch you and you cause a serious accident you will be charged with 1st degree murder of how many people were on the aircraft that crashed along with a litany of other federal offences meaning life without parole is basically a guarantee.

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#33

Post by himata4113 »

bronco21016 wrote: post #9

Whats really sad for aviation is there was already an extensive network of ground based navaids. As GPS has proliferated, they've slowly been decommissioned as they age out to save on cost. I'm specifically referring to VORs which provide azimuth and range to station. GPS is fantastic and as a primary source everyone loves the benefits it brings. However, in a century of aviation, everyone has kinda sorted out that y…

We have starlink I am sure they can figure something out.

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#34

Post by subw00f »

donohoe wrote: post #32

What I want is a tiny portable bluetooth jammer for those who insist everyone in public must be listening to their music. Sadly they are too clunky to haul around each day.

Are they? You can make one pretty easily and sew it into your backpack for added camouflage. I heard.

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#35

Post by mlhpdx »

With all the man made EM emitters in the world, it seems like passively matching what can be “seen” to a database of known emitters (with signal profiles and locations) could be extremely accurate where people are (less helpful on the open ocean and remote wilderness). Similar to what’s already being done with Wi-Fi and Bluetooth but general purpose, perhaps?

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#37

Post by mschuster91 »

buildsjets wrote: post #10
bronco21016 wrote: post #9

Whats really sad for aviation is there was already an extensive network of ground based navaids. As GPS has proliferated, they've slowly been decommissioned as they age out to save on cost. I'm specifically referring to VORs which provide azimuth and range to station. GPS is fantastic and as a primary source everyone loves the benefits it brings. However, in a century of aviation, everyone has kinda sorted out that y…

VOR is extremely short range and requires an extraordinary number of transmitters to provide any volume of coverage. Additionally it cannot provide coverage over oceanic areas. We USED TO have a nearly global long-range land based navigation system called LORAN, which only required one master station and a few remote stations to provide continent-scale coverage. But it was decommissioned in a cost savings move after…

> Additionally it cannot provide coverage over oceanic areas.

It's really hard to jam oceanic areas though, you need a vessel capable of sustaining human life autonomously at least for days plus dealing with the high seas.

Buoys could theoretically be used for that purpose, yes, but good luck getting them stationary enough. Maybe some of the secret services could pull off such a trick but at least no ordinary civilian.

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#38

Post by mschuster91 »

himata4113 wrote: post #33
bronco21016 wrote: post #9

Whats really sad for aviation is there was already an extensive network of ground based navaids. As GPS has proliferated, they've slowly been decommissioned as they age out to save on cost. I'm specifically referring to VORs which provide azimuth and range to station. GPS is fantastic and as a primary source everyone loves the benefits it brings. However, in a century of aviation, everyone has kinda sorted out that y…

We have starlink I am sure they can figure something out.

Starlink lacks the high precision atomic clocks on board of the satellites, that is also why Starlink needs a GPS fix to bootstrap itself.

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#40

Post by mschuster91 »

teeray wrote: post #7
budman1 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LORAN can be jammed.

Well certainly, no one thing is impervious. But if you have GPS, LORAN, VORs, NDBs, astronavigation, etc. you have many more options at your disposal and present a much more complex attack target.

> astronavigation

Good luck finding a pilot trained on doing this, or an aircraft with high enough window cutouts that allow for the use of a sextant. Old Boeings had them [1], but no modern aircraft does.

I think even among navies you'll be hard pressed to find a navigator who still can do astronavigation. IIRC even the US Navy discontinued astronavigation, but recently-ish reintroduced training for it again.

[1] https://virginflightdeck.blogspot.com/2010_09_01_archive.htm...

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