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Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

wsj.com

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Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#11

Post by imglorp »

eternityforest wrote: post #5

Is there a reliable app to detect these without using excessive amounts of battery?

I feel like gps nav software should start considering the jamming and spoofing cases as real conditions they will encounter that should throw up an INOP warning.

It wouldn't take much smarts for it to consider the type of vessel it's in and the max and current speeds. If the calculated position of a 10 knot vessel suddenly jumps 100 km away in seconds, that sure seems like a spoof. And if you had 10 satellites locked and then you have none, that sure seems like jamming, or you're in a tunnel; INOP either way.

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#12

Post by djoldman »

No worries in the long run; similar to the "energy crisis," new inventions and technology will mitigate the issue:

Quantum Compass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_compass

Also see: https://www.sandboxaq.com/post/sandboxaq-and-acubed-achieve-...

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#15

Post by cyberax »

budman1 wrote: post #6
teeray wrote: post #2

I saw some rumblings (can't find an article) that there's interest in restarting LORAN to provide an alternative to GPS for this reason.

LORAN can be jammed.

Not really. It uses 2MHz band, with the wavelength of around 160m.

This means that it's easy to receive via a ferrite bar antenna but hard to transmit. You need an antenna of at least around 40m size for that to be efficient.

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#16

Post by jacquesm »

bronco21016 wrote: post #9

Whats really sad for aviation is there was already an extensive network of ground based navaids. As GPS has proliferated, they've slowly been decommissioned as they age out to save on cost. I'm specifically referring to VORs which provide azimuth and range to station. GPS is fantastic and as a primary source everyone loves the benefits it brings. However, in a century of aviation, everyone has kinda sorted out that y…

And LORAN. But it may make a come-back.

GPS signals are just incredibly weak so it takes next to nothing to drown them out, easier still if you are above the receiver.

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#17

Post by jacquesm »

budman1 wrote: post #6
teeray wrote: post #2

I saw some rumblings (can't find an article) that there's interest in restarting LORAN to provide an alternative to GPS for this reason.

LORAN can be jammed.

Not so simple. For one the distances to the transmitter are much smaller, for another the amount of power available to the transmitters is pretty much whatever you want to hook it up to, whereas GPS satellites are on a pretty strict power budget. On the reception side the power levels are many orders of magnitude apart.

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#18

Post by andrehacker »

djoldman wrote: post #12

No worries in the long run; similar to the "energy crisis," new inventions and technology will mitigate the issue: Quantum Compass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_compass Also see: https://www.sandboxaq.com/post/sandboxaq-and-acubed-achieve-...

Also see https://q-ctrl.com/ironstone-opal

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#19

Post by Hizonner »

djoldman wrote: post #12

No worries in the long run; similar to the "energy crisis," new inventions and technology will mitigate the issue: Quantum Compass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_compass Also see: https://www.sandboxaq.com/post/sandboxaq-and-acubed-achieve-...

I'm sorry, but a multi-kilogram (at a guess), five-figure-priced (at a conservative guess) device with kilometer-scale error (per their actual press release) is not a substitute for a GPS.

And you probably can't improve on many of those specs no matter how much "inventing" you do. There's just not that much information in magnetic fields, especially if you don't spend an infeasible amount of money on keeping maps up to date. You're probably jammable, too.

The same applies to the gravitational hacks, and the mapping issue applies even to visual navigation.

Those guesses, by the way, are because not only is AQNav's "data sheet" worthless fluff, but they seem to be allergic to letting anybody even see a picture of the product. Which makes me doubt that they actually have what a normal person would think of as a "product" to begin with.

Re: Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones

#20

Post by verelo »

buildsjets wrote: post #10
bronco21016 wrote: post #9

Whats really sad for aviation is there was already an extensive network of ground based navaids. As GPS has proliferated, they've slowly been decommissioned as they age out to save on cost. I'm specifically referring to VORs which provide azimuth and range to station. GPS is fantastic and as a primary source everyone loves the benefits it brings. However, in a century of aviation, everyone has kinda sorted out that y…

VOR is extremely short range and requires an extraordinary number of transmitters to provide any volume of coverage. Additionally it cannot provide coverage over oceanic areas. We USED TO have a nearly global long-range land based navigation system called LORAN, which only required one master station and a few remote stations to provide continent-scale coverage. But it was decommissioned in a cost savings move after…

On VOR: It's also a PITA to use, and for inexperienced people, or someone who rarely uses it, they can confuse flying towards and away from the station.
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