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I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

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Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#121

Post by pstuart »

newsclues wrote: post #111
pstuart wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s because it’s easier to recruit kids into cults or whatever That's what Sunday School is for. I lived in SF at the time of the original burns on Baker Beach and heard about them but I was too lame and isolated to ever participate but followed their antics (and the Cacophony Society) from afar. The universe arranged for me to go ten years ago and I found the experience magical. There's an exhibit that shows ho…

Or school, including university/college

Sorry, but no. That's a key reason why the religious folk hate public education at the college level: that exposure tends to help previously indoctrinated kids recognize that they have been in a cult and they leave it.

As for K-12, their hatred is that the public version is competition for their private education which is fully intended to indoctrinate them into their particular flavor of religion.

I'm not saying this to be combative -- it's all publicly stated.

The only combative thing here is using the word "cult" to describe a mainstream religion, and even that is because people get offended by that rendering rather than it not being the case.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#122

Post by davkan »

isubkhankulov wrote: post #118
davkan wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

300k would put you in the top 5% of households and 3-4x the median household, let alone single earners. You are absolutely beyond “comfortably middle class” with that salary.

Where? Not in the Bay Area. $300k is middle class there.

I would bet that’s still top 5% for individual earners in the Bay Area. Do you think 300k is anywhere near average?

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#123

Post by aprilthird2021 »

burnt-resistor wrote: post #80
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a huge amount even in San Francisco. Sometimes I'm shocked what working in big tech does to people's ideas about what a normal annual salary is. Burning Man is a once a year event. Being a c level for that is not comparable to being c level for a lot of other even non profit orgs not to even mention for profit orgs

Nawh, not even. The truth is it takes 550k/yr TC to buy a basic house ($1.6M) in exactly the neighborhood where I grew up in scrubby yards and broken sidewalks south San José. In SF, it takes 720k TC to afford a regular house ($2.5M). Boomer and Greatest generations got Prop 13 extra low property taxes (like $1064/y because it's 1.4% on $76k valuation) and then everyone else pays 1.4%/y (14k) on a million+ house at m…

No it does not take $550k/yr to buy a $1.6M house. But all this will vary based on your timelines what your nest egg currently looks like, etc.

But also, you don't have to buy a house. Median rent, groceries, car payment, etc. in San Jose aren't gonna run you more than like $7k/mo. After taxes on your income you should have about $100k after essentials are all paid for. That's more than enough to basically live whatever life you want.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#124

Post by aprilthird2021 »

EPWN3D wrote: post #78
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a huge amount even in San Francisco. Sometimes I'm shocked what working in big tech does to people's ideas about what a normal annual salary is. Burning Man is a once a year event. Being a c level for that is not comparable to being c level for a lot of other even non profit orgs not to even mention for profit orgs

300k is a huge amount of money if you have no dependents. Otherwise it's comfortably middle class, but that's it.

$300k HHI is 200% of the SF median income for a 4 person household in 2026: https://media.api.sf.gov/documents/2026_AMI-IncomeLimits-HMF...

And we have not included the spouse's income at all (assuming with kids there is a spousal income)

Unless you don't define middle class as the percentile between 25 and 75, then it's markedly above middle class.

Incomes in SF are skewed though because housing costs vary wildly. Some people are below the median income but have rent control or property tax so low that they pay basically nothing for housing.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#125

Post by aprilthird2021 »

isubkhankulov wrote: post #118
davkan wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

300k would put you in the top 5% of households and 3-4x the median household, let alone single earners. You are absolutely beyond “comfortably middle class” with that salary.

Where? Not in the Bay Area. $300k is middle class there.

It's double the median income of the most expensive cities in the bay area for a 4 person household

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#126

Post by newsclues »

pstuart wrote: post #121
newsclues wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or school, including university/college

Sorry, but no. That's a key reason why the religious folk hate public education at the college level: that exposure tends to help previously indoctrinated kids recognize that they have been in a cult and they leave it. As for K-12, their hatred is that the public version is competition for their private education which is fully intended to indoctrinate them into their particular flavor of religion. I'm not saying thi…

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/endi...

Maybe religious people hate public education because it is different programming than they offer?

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#127

Post by wizardforhire »

The history of burning man is well documented and predates the playa…

The head of the original man is still preserved by one of the original co-founders and I have personally seen it and touched it.

https://presidio.gov/explore/blog/then-now-burning-man-at-ba...

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#128

Post by jasomill »

esseph wrote: post #99
dhosek wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a sentence early on in the article, “San Francisco has always been a place people came to re-create themselves — running from something, running toward something exciting and unknown, going as far as they could for a shot at a new life.” although I think the tense there should probably be more “used to be” than “has always been” thanks to the same gentrification influence. I feel like much of California has…

> When you read about people coming to California in the 60s and 70s (and somewhat in the 80s), it had that same magical quality that Burning Man had in the early years and has suffered the same kinds of changes. I wonder what the 2026 equivalent of going to California is now, if such a thing even exists or can exist. I look at LA and I look at cities in China and it makes LA look like a rural suburb the difference i…

LA (city, county, metro area) has a fairly low population density even compared to other large US cities.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#129

Post by 4d4m »

cassonmars wrote: post #13
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regional burns are a thing, and they're pretty awesome.

They can be, but unfortunately the org has threatened to revoke official regional burn status unless they followed all the same rules, in particular, that children be allowed. There used to be some leeway on that, and there were really wonderful regional burns that did not permit kids. They were forced to, which resulted in the "real" burn being in a small taped off area. Seems insane to me to think kids should be at…

Festivals and concerts, BM included are a all around a bad place for kids. A babysitter isn't the end of the world while you have some time for fun and to reset.

Seeing pets and children at multi-day festivals is such a vibe-kill for everyone - it feels unreasonable for all personas involved!

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#130

Post by SMEbooop »

cromka wrote: post #60

I have attended festivals for more than half of my life and they're all suspectable to the same gentrification problem as cool neighborhoods: fun/artsy people create fun environments, fun environments attract others who genuinely appreciate fun/artsy but are professionals themselves, professionals attract other professionals but shallower with more money. Or, in short, they get hugged to death. Rinse, repeat. Same th…

Same in Portland, OR. Cost of living is through the roof for one of the least diverse and culture-less metros of the well known metros in the US. Been around most of the 50 states and found way way more going on for less money.

It is swamped with boogie uninteresting characters. When I moved here almost 30 years ago now the locals boasted about having some of the lowest TV ownership rates in the country. Now I walk my dog and see glowing massive TVs in every house.

Bunch of lame college kids from Nowhereville community college Arkansas and Kentucky shirts everywhere; never see Oregon State or UofO anymore cause those grads know the local economy sucks and leverage their degree to get out.

All the local boogie ice cream shops with lines out the door? Venture capital businesses. Not truly local.

Multnomah county population been on the decline since covid lockdown ended. First time a years long depopulation trend has happened in Portland ever.

People outside of Portland find out I live here and trash it for turning into a gentrified snooze fest.

Can't wait to gtfo out of here once my kids are older

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