I keep getting downvoted for saying this but I still review all of my AI generated code. I feel like I’m sufficiently sped up. Of course you can go faster if you don’t read the code at all, that’s always been true. But it seems like the ability to emit large quantities of text is already a huge leap in productivity. I don’t think these tools are good enough yet to offload all or our thinking into them.
What do you say to your boss if they ask why your colleague is producing 10-100x the kloc as you?
AI-written code is still your code
71–80 of 99 posts
Re: AI-written code is still your code
#72> It’s crystal clear that AI can be a complexity factory. > keeping software understandable to humans a first-class design goal in the age of AI. I'm not sure this is going to be a worthwhile goal for much longer. Rarely is anyone caring about the complexity and comprehensibility of the ASM that GCC or LLVM generates from higher-level C code. I think the code-generation abstraction is just moving even higher now into…
"The system should email the customer when their subscription renews."
When? Which timezone? What should we email them? Which email address (the customer changed their email 10 minutes ago, the address at time of the charge?)
I can look at a page of code and answer those questions pretty quickly.
You could write all of those in plain English, but then there are more tiny flaws in the ambiguous language. Maybe we could standardize the language in some way. To reduce ambiguity we start using keywords. When we want to refer to the same thing twice we create a variable or a type. Two things must interleave, let's create concurrency primitives. To check that the prompt is correct, we can write a test for it.
And maybe we DO end up with a different format of prompting that supplies this, but at some point we are still giving directions to computers. If those directions are lossy, the system runs differently every time (which I've noticed is bad for building good software).
Re: AI-written code is still your code
#73I published a skill and short article on the technique I settled on: https://condour.github.io/lesson-plan-quiz/
Re: AI-written code is still your code
#74we will go full circle "what software would look like if we made keeping software understandable to humans" maybe we invent a pseudo programming language so we get deterministic results ;)
I honestly have a vision of a database of .md files that fully describes an application in human-readable, (ok, engineer-readable), text. Making a change is committing a change to the human-readable text, and then AI comes and figures out the rest and/or suggests edits to the human-readable text. (Or asks questions.)
Re: AI-written code is still your code
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
What was the point to you? What I took away from the article is that AI adds a bunch of complexity that is making it harder, not easier to understand. And I'm saying that is true, but it's also enabling a kind of complexity and ambition in outcomes that might be a worthwhile trade-off. In the same way we accept that cars are no longer something that a mechanic can understand and repair without a laptop, because we tr…
It's useful to you. I'd say take the win and let the haters quibble. I'm good enough at coding that I can use it as part of my day job, but I hate coding for the sake of coding. For me coding is a tool for solving problems, and now AI can sometimes help me solve problems I might not have had the motivation to persue. My scale is usually "a small application that helps me do X", not "I develop photoshop singlehandedly…
The fact they aren't doing it singlehanded makes it way harder, not easier. This is a central counterintuitive finding of most thinking about software development
Re: AI-written code is still your code
#76Yes I'm more than okay. AI has enabled a scale of personal ambition I could only previously have dreamed of. I've never been the kind of coder who could easily sit down and get their thoughts out from mind to written lines. I've seen that happen in a few gifted individuals, and AI might be frustrating them, because for them, coding was never the bottleneck, but for me, I would always get stuck in analysis paralysis,…
I do not understand the bitterness here at all. AI is just a tool you can use for better or worse.
I learnt basic programming at an old age of 10 and 6502 assembler 2 years later from (paper)books.
There was no Internet and I dreamed of one day owning a magical software program called Macro Assembler so I could use labels and advanced loops in assembler programs instead of tediously translating examples from the book or magazines using a pencil and paper into assembly without such features.
The AI today is like that Macro Assembler for me back then. You, a human, are simply moved one layer of abstraction higher.
Did I enjoy writing that assembler back then when the goal was to complete a calculation in the time it took the crt tube's electron gun to draw one line on the screen? Sure. Would I want to write accounting software in it? Hell no.
There have been very crappy coders and great coders before and after AI. Just like almost no one writes assembler anymore, almost no one will write normal code in the age of AI. But knowledge of it, how it should be written is still going to be important.
Your value as a human is in the architecture of the software and choices that influence it's entire functioning. In maintainability, scalability and resilience present in your design from day 1 not added a year later.
You know how much slop and crappy work I saw before AI? A lot.
Re: AI-written code is still your code
#77Re: AI-written code is still your code
#78We've seen commentary along these lines re AI productivity gains Vs code maintenance costs and quality concerns for months/years now, but somehow, for me at least, viewing this through the lens of code ownership (literal ownership, not metaphorical/moral ownership in the 'take pride in your work and do it well, regardless' sense) makes this extrinsic risk all the more clear.
It also makes me think of the estimated billions lost to spreadsheet errors: non-programmers unaware that they were programming creating spreadsheet macros that appeared to do exactly what they wanted, but that in reality only did so most of the time, with edge cases and error handling omitted entirely, leading to significant financial losses for their employers.
In that case, the lack of sanction is far clearer: They were not programmers, they did their best, no one noticed and it wasn't their job to do so, etc.
The case of AI isn't that different, especially since it is just as available to the non-programmer as it is to the cavalier, or to the pressured junior, or to the responsible, take-ownership-and-maintain developer.
AI without governance and program management leads organizations to assume unqualified and unquantified risk with diffused responsibility; outside the small class of take-ownership-and-maintain professional, all risks are extrinsic to individuals so why should they care if it gets the job (mostly) done?
They don't and they won't.
(Reaches for popcorn to watch imminent train wrecks whilst hoping his water supply remains uncompromised.)
Re: AI-written code is still your code
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's useful to you. I'd say take the win and let the haters quibble. I'm good enough at coding that I can use it as part of my day job, but I hate coding for the sake of coding. For me coding is a tool for solving problems, and now AI can sometimes help me solve problems I might not have had the motivation to persue. My scale is usually "a small application that helps me do X", not "I develop photoshop singlehandedly…
absolubtely. Worth noting though that a large number of people here literally do develop photoshop , or similar apps of similar complexity. The fact they aren't doing it singlehanded makes it way harder, not easier. This is a central counterintuitive finding of most thinking about software development
As N->large, fraction of time spent coordinating approaches infinity.