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It takes 5 cloud services to hear my doorbell

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Re: It takes 5 cloud services to hear my doorbell

#191

Post by whstl »

buran77 wrote: post #181
whstl wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't miss it. I have acknowledged the requirements and have challenged them. What I am stating is that "it was in the requirements" is not a "get out of jail card" when someone says it's over-engineered. All I'm saying is that it's a very comfortable position to abstract away personal responsibility and say "I'm not over-engineering, that's what X wants", but that's exactly how we get the over-engineered Linux-pl…

Don't overthink it. If you judge the engineering then you look at how the implementation reflects the requirements, not whether the requirements are good. Over-engineered simply means there is much more in that implementation than the baseline needed to tick off the requirements.

I disagree. IMO this mindset is not how you make good engineering or good products.

As an engineer (the traditional kind), I don't really appreciate nor can I afford the "not my problem" attitude of doing engineering in a vacuum, because in the end it's my responsibility.

Re: It takes 5 cloud services to hear my doorbell

#192

Post by whstl »

trial3 wrote: post #180
whstl wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't miss it. I have acknowledged the requirements and have challenged them. What I am stating is that "it was in the requirements" is not a "get out of jail card" when someone says it's over-engineered. All I'm saying is that it's a very comfortable position to abstract away personal responsibility and say "I'm not over-engineering, that's what X wants", but that's exactly how we get the over-engineered Linux-pl…

you’ve successfully over-engineered the whimsy and joy out of their original idea

I never claimed I wasn't over-engineering the line of thought, though. :)

I'm perfectly fine with people having fun or over-engineering stuff, I'm just pointing out that it's still over-engineered in the end. Which is 100% fine!

Re: It takes 5 cloud services to hear my doorbell

#193

Post by 10729287 »

jen20 wrote: post #28
artisinal wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the upcoming Samsung SmartThings API pricing Imagine paying a Korean company five bucks a months so you can get a notification on your phone that your fridge needs a new water filter. People really need to touch grass.

Why does it matter that it’s a Korean company?

The idea behind it was probably "Some company on the other side of the world"

Re: It takes 5 cloud services to hear my doorbell

#194

Post by whstl »

streetfighter64 wrote: post #159
whstl wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I was only following the requirements” at this point must be the Nurnberg defence of over engineering. If it quacks like a duck, doesn’t matter what you call it: it was over engineering.

Godwin's law was invoked quickly. It's not very hacker spirit to hear a story of somebody putting together a cool hardware solution to do something they wanted, and then complain that they wanted the wrong thing. > check out my hand-embroidered curtains, it's got exactly the flower pattern I wanted > yeah well you shouldn't want flowers on your curtains, just buy plain white ones from the store

I'm not really passing judgement on the project itself, or its validity, and I think it's cool. I'm perfectly fine with someone saying "I over-engineered this" or "I hand made this". I do this all the time myself...

I'm just pointing out that "it's in the [my own] requirements" in this case does not really make something "not over engineered".

Re: It takes 5 cloud services to hear my doorbell

#195

Post by danparsonson »

bvan wrote: post #187

This is analogous to what AI is turning into. Pretty soon, some folks won’t be able to tie their shoe laces without tech.

That's a great comment! Tying ones shoelaces without the aid of modern technology is not just old-fashioned (em dash) it's a key differentiator that highlights the growing divide between the generations in the age of generative AI!

etc.

What a time to be alive

Re: It takes 5 cloud services to hear my doorbell

#196

Post by whstl »

ncruces wrote: post #177
rantingdemon wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP stated it requires a user configurable chime. This is not a regular doorbell.

Yes, and the person engaged with them is pointing out that more complex solutions exist because someone added other requirements. Maybe “I want a configurable chime” is just a less popular requirement than “I want to be notified on my phone even if I'm not at home.” Also, Excel is famously complex because, despite most users only using 20% of the features, no one uses the same 20%, so if you want cover close to 100%…

> Yes, and the person engaged with them is pointing out that more complex solutions exist because someone added other requirements.

Precisely.

The Wi-Fi and Linux solution that was called over-engineered just happened to have different requirements. Engineering is a collaboration, not blindly solving very specific problems.

Re: It takes 5 cloud services to hear my doorbell

#197

Post by al_borland »

shakna wrote: post #174
abc123abc123 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense, complete over engineering. I have a door, and people knock on it.

I have an overengineered wifi doorbell, and I've yet to have a delivery where it was used over knocking on wood.

I haven’t had a delivery person knock in quite a long time. Package deliveries haven’t knocked in close to 20 years. I’ve even noticed DoorDash drivers don’t even knock anymore, they awkwardly stand in front of the porch and try texting. I now open the door as they are walking up to the porch to avoid that. I don’t know if it’s a policy or some kind of shared anxiety, but I find it really weird.

Re: It takes 5 cloud services to hear my doorbell

#198

Post by everdrive »

mrb wrote: post #49

I am super sensitive to over engineering. For my doorbell I wanted something that lets me play a custom bell sound. You would be surprised that 99% of the solutions out there are complete over engineered stacks that depend on wifi devices, Internet access, connecting to various cloud services... So I built my own: a basic wireless button sends a radio 433 MHz signal, and my receiver is plugged inside the house and tr…

Almost any smart product these days starts with a couple of basic assumptions:

- All consumers own smartphones and like using them

- Consumers have no idea how their home networking works

- Consumers could not move a file from their computer to an SD card (or something similar)

So, everything is done by the app: you install the app, the smart device broadcasts a wifi network. This allows you to use your phone to give the smart device your wifi password. Then the remote servers handle everything else.

There's nothing in between. You're either an actual engineer, as mrb describes, or you're just beholden to cloud services that are terrible and also are guaranteed to disappear in 0-3 years.

Re: It takes 5 cloud services to hear my doorbell

#200

Post by HelloMcFly »

whstl wrote: post #194
streetfighter64 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Godwin's law was invoked quickly. It's not very hacker spirit to hear a story of somebody putting together a cool hardware solution to do something they wanted, and then complain that they wanted the wrong thing. > check out my hand-embroidered curtains, it's got exactly the flower pattern I wanted > yeah well you shouldn't want flowers on your curtains, just buy plain white ones from the store

I'm not really passing judgement on the project itself, or its validity, and I think it's cool. I'm perfectly fine with someone saying "I over-engineered this" or "I hand made this". I do this all the time myself... I'm just pointing out that "it's in the [my own] requirements" in this case does not really make something "not over engineered".

Is building a bookshelf with adjustable shelves is "over-engineered" because a single fixed plank would hold books just as well? Who gets to be the arbiter on which requirements are the "real" requirements?
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