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Show HN: NFC Energy-Harvesting PCB Business Card with an MCU

wilsonharper.net

21–30 of 36 posts

Re: Show HN: NFC Energy-Harvesting PCB Business Card with an MCU

#21
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are overcomplicating things. You have a power envelope, and you have to design your application around it. That's pretty much it. From an engineering perspective, there's no real complexity when it comes to the hardware, software protocols operate one level higher. Your app lives and dies by its power budget.

Yep, good point. Another interesting use case would be using the card as part of a crypto escrow. The problems being solved here are: - walking around with a device that can access a large wallet that could be accessed under duress or coercion - Key Pairs are hard to remember and type ___ - pre-pay an escrow online with $100 - have a payment card in your pocket - meet person with another card - set a payment amount -…

Okay so everytime I need escrow I will have to do all this? And use a different account anyway? Does not seem more convenient than current systems. Seems like you're trying to make the problem meet the solution instead of making the solution meet a problem and not considering actual user experience.

Re: Show HN: NFC Energy-Harvesting PCB Business Card with an MCU

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, good point. Another interesting use case would be using the card as part of a crypto escrow. The problems being solved here are: - walking around with a device that can access a large wallet that could be accessed under duress or coercion - Key Pairs are hard to remember and type ___ - pre-pay an escrow online with $100 - have a payment card in your pocket - meet person with another card - set a payment amount -…

Okay so everytime I need escrow I will have to do all this? And use a different account anyway? Does not seem more convenient than current systems. Seems like you're trying to make the problem meet the solution instead of making the solution meet a problem and not considering actual user experience.

I don't know a lot about this area, but I like the [1 doge = 1 doge] thing where people completely stop thinking about dollars and crypto-to-fiat conversion.

The card can work with Lay-buy/lay-by:

_____

You go into a store, pick something out. Get a crypto address for it and the amount required with your special card. They set the thing aside. You leave and return to the store when the transaction has gone through and get your stuff.

You don't pay immediately because you don't want to be walking around with a crypto wallet or a crypto debit card. The merchant doesn't want to pay fees either when dealing with an intermediary. There's no fiat conversion either, at least not as a given.

_____

Gemini says this:

"If you want to do this today, ask the merchant to print or email you a dynamic checkout invoice/QR code so you can complete the transfer on your own device later."

But how widespread is that?

"It is virtually non-existent at retail scale. While the underlying technology exists, you will practically never encounter this specific workflow in the wild."

https://share.gemini.google/ZBHVZo47ZSn1

The "special card" is an evolution of that use-case and organizes it better. You can leave home without thinking about dollars, ready to pay with crypto and not worry about being robbed. No worrying about stockpiling a bunch of receipts either. It's just a 2-step buying process, that's the downside. The shop also has to hope you end up paying once they set it aside. Maybe they'll need a deposit. They can offer deliveries?

Another idea is to pay online and collect it later. Use the card to authenticate yourself when you collect. That would need some decent tech backing it. Make it non-committal where if you don't collect within a certain time frame, you get your money back but lose a penalty chunk.

Isn't this what smart contracts are designed for - crypto transactions tied to real world events? The "special card" provides those events.

[ conversation continued via link above ]

Re: Show HN: NFC Energy-Harvesting PCB Business Card with an MCU

#25
post #7

For future PCB business card ideas: it would be dope if it can play audios. Gemini says you can power a piezo buzzer (causing a small bump on a PCB) w/ NFC (just enough power to drive it) to play the modem dialup handshake audio.

Different idea: https://hackaday.com/2024/06/06/2024-business-card-challenge...

Re: Show HN: NFC Energy-Harvesting PCB Business Card with an MCU

#26

"The card never actually transmits a message back to your phone. Instead, it changes how much energy it absorbs from the field, and your phone detects those power dips and converts them to binary data. Most NFC tags use this harvested energy only to run their internal circuitry, but some NFC chips are able to take excess DC voltage and route it out to external hardware. This business card uses that last feature." I w…

The key feature of this is the zero power storage on the business card.

In a drone or robo delivery case, there is already a massive power storage budget available, so I don’t see the particular advantage of this hack being relevant.

Re: Show HN: NFC Energy-Harvesting PCB Business Card with an MCU

#28
> I should explain how NFC works: Your phone emits a small magnetic field several times a second. An NFC card picks up on that field, making your phone act like a tiny wireless charger. The card never actually transmits a message back to your phone. Instead, it changes how much energy it absorbs from the field, and your phone detects those power dips and converts them to binary data. Most NFC tags use this harvested energy only to run their internal circuitry, but some NFC chips are able to take excess DC voltage and route it out to external hardware.

Can somebody explain how this actually works (Physics + Technology) with pointers to further resources? I have been meaning to look deeper into "Energy Harvesting Systems" and running a MCU using that but never really sat down to research it properly. Some links;

University of Washington - WISP (Wireless Identification and Sensing Platform) - https://sensor.cs.washington.edu/research/wisp_1

Perpetually Powered Energy Harvesting Systems Using the MSP430 MCU - https://www.ti.com/video/3870842958001

Re: Show HN: NFC Energy-Harvesting PCB Business Card with an MCU

#29

"The card never actually transmits a message back to your phone. Instead, it changes how much energy it absorbs from the field, and your phone detects those power dips and converts them to binary data. Most NFC tags use this harvested energy only to run their internal circuitry, but some NFC chips are able to take excess DC voltage and route it out to external hardware. This business card uses that last feature." I w…

The key feature of this is the zero power storage on the business card. In a drone or robo delivery case, there is already a massive power storage budget available, so I don’t see the particular advantage of this hack being relevant.

Keyless entry using an "unpowered keypadded card key" is an application. A key needing a PIN to work is useless to a thief. If someone finds out your PIN, you quickly disable it on your car too.

Regarding robotaxis:

"The side of the vehicle features a rugged touch screen. You receive a 4-digit PIN via text or app notification, walk up to the vehicle, and type that code into the car's screen to open the specific compartment holding your order."

https://share.gemini.google/wzuailgn9yih

You could roll up with your "unpowered keypad" to the taxi and key in a PIN via that. Saves the car from installing one, and there'd be an extra layer of security whereby your card could be coupled with the drop-off. It makes sense when you don't have or want a smartphone. (see below)

"External touchscreens mounted on autonomous delivery vehicles face several severe real-world challenges, making them one of the highest-maintenance hardware components on the vehicle... By shifting authentication back to the customer's phone, operators eliminate the weatherproofing and vandalism headaches of external screens while speeding up the drop-off process."

Re: Show HN: NFC Energy-Harvesting PCB Business Card with an MCU

#30

> I should explain how NFC works: Your phone emits a small magnetic field several times a second. An NFC card picks up on that field, making your phone act like a tiny wireless charger. The card never actually transmits a message back to your phone. Instead, it changes how much energy it absorbs from the field, and your phone detects those power dips and converts them to binary data. Most NFC tags use this harvested…

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