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The EU has begun enforcing the AI Act: first RFIs to model providers

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Re: The EU has begun enforcing the AI Act: first RFIs to model providers

#71

Post by cbg0 »

solenoid0937 wrote: post #67
cbg0 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the most important race in human history This feels like it needs a lot of asterisks. A race implies someone will win it - how exactly is China winning by making those models freely available? "The West" can use that tech, it's not locked away in some vault.

This is a very easy question to answer: they're commoditizing AI and compressing margins for the US labs, while their state funds large scale buildouts. It's a decelerating force for the US because it removes dollars that the labs would otherwise put into R&D. Obviously China will not release models if they ever get far ahead of the US's best models in capability. You can't seriously think that "free models" will rem…

But how is it relevant to the EU right now? It seems like sitting it out and spending that money on weapons is a better option for EU money as it solves an immediate danger.

Why would we need to worry about China getting far ahead of US models given the spending trajectory of US companies? If China does get ahead, US companies will just keep pumping more money into the problem to keep the race going. But to what end? LLMs are not going to morph into AGI, that will be a new paradigm.

For most people, the best LLM is the one that is cheapest to them, as models are incredibly good. I'd wager ~90% of people using AI today wouldn't be able to differentiate GPT Sol from GLM 5.3 Flash in their day-to-day usage. The models are already good enough today for most workloads, next year's model won't change that.

Re: The EU has begun enforcing the AI Act: first RFIs to model providers

#73

Post by rcarmo »

stymaar wrote: post #30
satvikpendem wrote: post #6

Claude slop article aside, this act is one reason why some people say Europe is an open air museum, as it'd rather regulate itself to obscurity while its great works are behind it. Where is Mistral, Le Chaton Fat? They're not competitive anymore. Meanwhile China reaches ever forward because they know that speed and endurance is everything in a race, not shooting oneself in the foot.

The key problem for Europe is that they don't want to take strong enough actions against US tech to let their own actors develop. Which is how China has reached tech dominance, and how even a shithole country like Russia can have their own “tech” industry.

You do realize geopolitics has made it kind of hard to have reasonable negotiations with the US in general, right? (cof cof Canada)

Re: The EU has begun enforcing the AI Act: first RFIs to model providers

#74

Post by solenoid0937 »

cbg0 wrote: post #71
solenoid0937 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very easy question to answer: they're commoditizing AI and compressing margins for the US labs, while their state funds large scale buildouts. It's a decelerating force for the US because it removes dollars that the labs would otherwise put into R&D. Obviously China will not release models if they ever get far ahead of the US's best models in capability. You can't seriously think that "free models" will rem…

But how is it relevant to the EU right now? It seems like sitting it out and spending that money on weapons is a better option for EU money as it solves an immediate danger. Why would we need to worry about China getting far ahead of US models given the spending trajectory of US companies? If China does get ahead, US companies will just keep pumping more money into the problem to keep the race going. But to what end?…

> Why would we need to worry about China getting far ahead of US models

If China gets to superintelligence first, the EU is cooked. This is a regime that has permanently disappeared tens of thousands of their human rights lawyers.

> will just keep pumping more money into the problem to keep the race going

Do you think taxing the US companies at 3% of global turnover and twiddling thumbs over copyright helps or hurts the West in the race to superintelligence?

> most workloads, next year's model won't change that.

"Most workloads" are irrelevant, the models matter only at the edge of the hardest problems they can solve, you are thinking of these models like any other technology when they will soon solve incredibly difficult problems that may give one country a real edge over the other.

Re: The EU has begun enforcing the AI Act: first RFIs to model providers

#75

Post by pdpi »

hvb2 wrote: post #69
pdpi wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving open weight models more leeway “feels” right, but it’s a massive self-pwn based on the mother of all back doors. It’s a little bit like saying “sysadmins need work visas and vetting, but this guy works for free, so just give him root and don’t think too hard about it”.

For Europe the choices are, foreign actor A or foreign actor B. I don't think the current US administration has shown themselves to be less hostile than China...

I'm not saying the scrutiny on US models is unwarranted. I'm saying that open-weight models are the perfect trojan horse, so giving those models a pass on that same level of scrutiny (irrespective of provenance) is just begging to be pwned.

Re: The EU has begun enforcing the AI Act: first RFIs to model providers

#76

Post by kuerbel »

consensus1 wrote: post #51
refactor_master wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my manager's manager's manager decides, for any number of reasons, to buy a product which is using US-based technology, then I don't reasonably have the option to "vote with my feet", but I do have a fallback called Regulation, which works its way all the way up the chain automatically.

Why would you ever expect that you would have a choice of what products you use at work? You are being paid to work there. And yes, if you feel that strongly, you absolutely do have the option to vote with your feet at any time.

>Why would you ever expect that you would have a choice of what products you use at work?

Umm Because of worker protection laws? For example the Betriebsrat has the right to have a say in this. Second what if the product is very much inferior and the whole company would be more productive with another product?

> You are being paid to work there.

Yes and that means if I see an improvement opportunity or if I have concerns I will voice them. I'm being paid to improve the company, not be a cog in the machine.

Re: The EU has begun enforcing the AI Act: first RFIs to model providers

#77

Post by cbg0 »

solenoid0937 wrote: post #74
cbg0 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how is it relevant to the EU right now? It seems like sitting it out and spending that money on weapons is a better option for EU money as it solves an immediate danger. Why would we need to worry about China getting far ahead of US models given the spending trajectory of US companies? If China does get ahead, US companies will just keep pumping more money into the problem to keep the race going. But to what end?…

> Why would we need to worry about China getting far ahead of US models If China gets to superintelligence first, the EU is cooked. This is a regime that has permanently disappeared tens of thousands of their human rights lawyers. > will just keep pumping more money into the problem to keep the race going Do you think taxing the US companies at 3% of global turnover and twiddling thumbs over copyright helps or hurts…

> If China gets to superintelligence first, the EU is cooked.

If it's as dangerous as you say, the first country that will get to this will be in big trouble, regardless of who they are.

> Do you think taxing the US companies at 3% of global turnover and twiddling thumbs over copyright helps or hurts the West in the race to superintelligence?

Global turnover taxation was meant to prevent companies using creative accounting to not pay taxes, not to hurt "the West".

> they will soon solve incredibly difficult problems that may give one country a real edge over the other

What is this based on aside from AI hype?

Re: The EU has begun enforcing the AI Act: first RFIs to model providers

#78

Post by thesumofall »

One can and must discuss and challenge all these regulations, but this seems better than just sliding carelessly into some sort of mega-corp dystopia. It is good to have some balance of power. Is the EU perfect? Absolutely not, but neither are the corporates. Ideally, compromises will be found (and mostly they are found). Honestly, what’s the worst that can happen here? If this slows down the European economy, that’s a trade-off Europe has chosen to take (and yes, I’m very aware of the difficulties of fair representation in such a complex entity as the EU). We now have three big power blocks with very different politics and governance models. Isn’t that so much better than just playing one massive bet on a few big AI players? Honestly, I think it is exciting!

Re: The EU has begun enforcing the AI Act: first RFIs to model providers

#79

Post by Hamuko »

aenis wrote: post #46
Phelinofist wrote: post #43

It's a good thing - AI is in basically everything, it needs regulation.

By people who never built anything except bureaucracies?

We should instead be governed by people who never built anything except giant repositories of stolen data?
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