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Thoughts on Pope Leo XIV's Magnifica Humanitas

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Re: Thoughts on Pope Leo XIV's Magnifica Humanitas

#51

Post by EA-3167 »

mcshicks wrote: post #46
EA-3167 wrote: post #10

On one hand I appreciate the considerate scholarship on display, and since there are so many Catholics maybe some will even listen to their purported leader. On the other hand I find any talk of greed, selfishness, manipulation and degradation of humanity... really rich coming from a pope. Maybe I'm supposed to forgive, but I'm not going to forget that they spent decades abusing, hiding abuse, trying to force abortio…

Did you read it? 89. Living out justice in the Church means purifying ecclesial relationships and structures from distortions that give rise to inequality, lack of transparency and abuse of power. In this regard, listening to the victims of spiritual, economic, institutional, sexual and power-based abuse, as well as abuses of conscience, is an integral part of a journey toward justice, which includes acknowledging th…

I did read it, but words are cheap, even very flowery words that make all sorts of promises. There's no particular reason to trust that organization's leadership, so any promises should be believed only once results materialize and last for some period of time. I for example would hesitate to credit the church with stamping out abuse just because no major stories have broken this year (that I'm aware of).

Likewise when it comes to changing their practical stances and teaching on matters that have very real impacts on health and wellbeing of so many, I'll believe it when I see the results for some time.

Re: Thoughts on Pope Leo XIV's Magnifica Humanitas

#52

Post by jjtheblunt »

leflambeur wrote: post #47
jjtheblunt wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the Pope is an American billionaire at this point, in some Vatican sense.

It is fascinating (this word doesn't quite capture sentiment, but the best I can think of right now) how any mention of the Catholic Church, on whatever specific topic — in this case, an encyclical about AI — triggers the immediate desire in some to go full ad hominem. "billionaire", "in some Vatican sense". Would you elaborate? This just sounds like such a low and lazy attack

did you read the comment i responded to?

not some ad hominem attack at all: the parent comment remarked the pope knew more about AI than American billionaires.

The pope is American, is in charge of the Holy See, which has assets in the billions. Thus the irony of the comment to which i responded.

Re: Thoughts on Pope Leo XIV's Magnifica Humanitas

#53

Post by EA-3167 »

Georgelemental wrote: post #48
EA-3167 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not 100% effective, in the real world you don't start with a hypothetical value and then insist it's real despite thousands of years of evidence to the contrary: You Modify Your Hypothesis.

There are many practices that have been widespread for thousands of years, which we would nevertheless all consider wrong. Why is this issue different?

I'd argue that it isn't something to promote harmful policies over, recognizing reality as it exists is essential. You can want to change the world, but until you have you need to work with what you have and not doom so many people to horrible lives and deaths as a result of your ultimate goal.

Edit: You ultimately can't claim a fictional effectiveness rate for something that's never demonstrated that level of success. Theory and Practice DIFFER.

Re: Thoughts on Pope Leo XIV's Magnifica Humanitas

#54

Post by m4rtink »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #2

> The direction that AI takes is not written into the technology itself. It depends on our choices, on the institutions that host and underpin that choosing, and on our ability to manage innovation responsibly to serve the common good. This is such a key point -- the problem is that the $T that are being poured into AI are doing so for one purpose alone: ROI The choice has already been made, and it's the wrong one.

Its certainly the wrong choice if by all indications the R is apparently missing in your ROI.

Re: Thoughts on Pope Leo XIV's Magnifica Humanitas

#55

Post by EA-3167 »

deep_concern wrote: post #34
EA-3167 wrote: post #10

On one hand I appreciate the considerate scholarship on display, and since there are so many Catholics maybe some will even listen to their purported leader. On the other hand I find any talk of greed, selfishness, manipulation and degradation of humanity... really rich coming from a pope. Maybe I'm supposed to forgive, but I'm not going to forget that they spent decades abusing, hiding abuse, trying to force abortio…

>trying to force abortion to the margins along with birth control Do you have some suggestions about the doctrines that Catholics should assent to?

My feeling is that freedom of religion is important, but I also believe that there have to be limits and public health crises are one of those limiting factors. I would point today to people who use a religious exemption to avoid vaccination as an example of people who's (perhaps) sincere expression of religious belief is incompatible with their duty to the society they're a part of.

You're accountable to more than God.

Re: Thoughts on Pope Leo XIV's Magnifica Humanitas

#56

Post by insane_dreamer »

Animats wrote: post #36
insane_dreamer wrote: post #2

> The direction that AI takes is not written into the technology itself. It depends on our choices, on the institutions that host and underpin that choosing, and on our ability to manage innovation responsibly to serve the common good. This is such a key point -- the problem is that the $T that are being poured into AI are doing so for one purpose alone: ROI The choice has already been made, and it's the wrong one.

It's the correct choice according to the fundamental principles of capitalism, as set down by Milton Friedman.[1] and Lewis Powell.[2] Friedman set down the theory: In an ideal free market resting on private property, no individual can coerce any other, all cooperation is voluntary, all parties to such cooperation benefit or they need not participate. There are no “social” values, no “social” responsibilities in any…

> It's the correct choice according to the fundamental principles of capitalism

sure, it aligns with the principles of capitalism

that doesn't make it the right choice

Re: Thoughts on Pope Leo XIV's Magnifica Humanitas

#57

Post by salawat »

albeebe1 wrote: post #5
doodlebugging wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your summary. Greed has won out over everything else.

Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed is good for the Greedy, but disasterous for anyone you'd ever want live with. Greed simplifies and creates clarity by destroying and debasing acts of humanity that are actually worthy to something that can exist as a row in a ledger. A society cannot thrive on greed alone. A society based only on greed abandons every moral check against corruption and manipulation imaginable. There is nothing more frightening to a crook than a world full of decent people that can't empathize with greed, and will actually talk amongst themselves about it, and react. Without greed, people can't be easily greased or goaded. They can't be controlled or cajoled or moved with mere trickery. You are forced to appeal in the one thing the crook doesn't have in abundance. Virtue, and rightness.
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