Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

#251

Post by ddorian43 » Sun, Aug 30, 2026, 9:42 PM UTC

epolanski wrote: post #237

ddorian43 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The beef is not the source of this. Ruminant meat is the best food there is for humans. (i eat daily as part of ketovore diet)

As you seem to be unaware: 1. a single cow produces 250 grams of methane per day. Methane is insanely more dangerous to the environment than CO2. A single adult cow pollutes in a day as much as a car driven for 165 miles. And that's only for emissions . 2. As a cow does not pollute just what it emits, you need to add the lifecycle: cows need to be fed. 80% of the food we humans grow goes to feed animals, not humans.…

> Red meat is a category 1 carcinogenic

It is not. There are no studies with simply meat. They count burgers and processed stuff. I literally do 90% carnivore so eat nothing processed. I only put salt on the meat.

> You could put on a scale every single tiger, domestic dog, rabbit, squirrel, horse, hyppo, kangaroo, etc, etc, etc on the planet.

Carnivore animals rarely are eaten. Horse/rabbit are low fat. Beef & lamb are the two most popular that are available nearly everywhere.

> I don't know where you get your nutritional facts

The best diet for mental health is animal based keto diet and carnivore diet (only red meat actually!, maybe some fish which is even more expensive often)

The diet is used for kids/adults with refractory epilepsy & serious mental disorders like schizophrenia/bipolar/eating disorders, diabetes (it's easy actually but there are many potential people for this).

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A short example: The only way to do vegan keto diet for epilepsy/schizophrenia/bipolar, is to eat protein powder, because there is no non-processed vegan food that has protein and is low carb.

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

#252

Post by mschuster91 » Sun, Aug 30, 2026, 9:43 PM UTC

thrance wrote: post #174

mschuster91 wrote: post #47

Just came back from a bike tour through rural Bavaria, it's insane how dusty everything is - and that despite a short but intense rain today night. The farmers around here are pretty much screwed this season, and not just the crop farmers but the cattle farmers as well, as they have to buy lots of feed now that they'd only have to buy in winter.

Forget the farmers, they are concerning signs of large famines potentially coming in early 2027.

Not in the Western world, we got enough food to last us a good while (recent issues with the FDA and food recalls in the US notwithstanding). China is probably also going to be safe, they learned from Mao Zedong's failures and got stockpiles. Africa is going to get fed as long as the Ukrainian and Russian grain exports keep going.

But who is going to get screwed hard is a lot of the rest of Asia, thanks to the Iran War taking out a lot of fertilizer sources...

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

#253

Post by uv-depression » Sun, Aug 30, 2026, 9:45 PM UTC

api wrote: post #220

uv-depression wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps instead of using one of the hallucination machines that's aggravating the climate crisis, you could have done some research: https://www.iea.org/commentaries/the-worlds-top-1-of-emitter... > Globally, the top 10% of emitters were responsible for almost half of global energy-related CO2 emissions in 2021, compared with a mere 0.2% for the bottom 10%. The top 10% is quite a bit more than billionaires, it's true…

I'm not saying nothing will ever change. That's a misreading. I'm saying asking people to sacrifice will both be rejected and will not do enough, and that the only answer is changing where we get energy. Environmentalists have been making the "abstinence first" guilt trip argument for decades and it's done absolutely nothing and it will never do anything. That approach is a total failure. I use the abstinence framing…

> I'm saying asking people to sacrifice will both be rejected and will not do enough, and that the only answer is changing where we get energy.

But energy source isn't the only problem. The problem is partially that energy use is high in and of itself. Solar panels (which only generate electricity; energy use is much bigger than just electricity) require materials like cobalt, which is mined (partially using child slavery) in Africa (DRC) in ecologically devastating ways (since you clearly care so deeply, I'm sure you knew that already). The ideology of infinite growth requires ever more cobalt, and so it depends on that oppression and ecological damage. Reduce, reuse, recycle are in that order for a reason, but we are never able to do the first because of infinite growth.

I think your framing of "abstinence" is nonsense. What are we abstaining from? Economic 'growth'? Energy usage? Consumerism? If so, all we're "abstaining" from is the thing that benefits rich people to our own detriment. We must distinguish economic growth from improvements to lifestyle, which as I stated are frequently at odds.

> They're a few percent of electricity use.

Continually growing, using far more resources than just electricity, for mostly downsides to humanity, and causing significant local pollution.

> Let's say we can cut energy requirements to live a middle class life style to 1/4 the current level, which might be possible.

Sure, let's just make up numbers. Sorry, I meant let's burn methane to have 'Claude' make up numbers.

> There are about 1.4 billion people in Africa who mostly live below that level. We have no right to tell them they can't have what we have. There's also probably a billion more in Asia who are still climbing to middle class.

But you haven't dealt with the fact that the reason they're deprived is because of the very system you're supporting. I agree that all people ought to have the same access to technology and standards of living, and doing so requires that we reshape how technology works and is distributed. That will never happen under the current system, because doing so would impact profits. Infinite growth is the thing preventing us from fundamentally improving our technology and societies to be sustainable.

> telling them to stay poor isn't how you make that happen

I am arguing for the opposite, but you seem not to have read what I wrote.

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

#254

Post by alistairSH » Sun, Aug 30, 2026, 9:50 PM UTC

cromka wrote: post #234

alistairSH wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He might be a treasure, but's he's also a prick. He has a long history of letting his on-screen persona leak into meatspace (or maybe it's the other way around) and that's not a good thing. Edit - since people seem to not believe me, at minimum, he punched his producer [1]. Which wasn't the first time he turned violent - he punched Piers Morgan [2] for letting Clarkson's extramarital affairs go public. Oh, he also ha…

I don't like you're being down voted, let's not give celebrities extra passes to be the assholes they can be. Elon being another prime example.

And I'll admit I watch his shows. The first two seasons of Clarkson's Farm were good TV. And with May and Hammond, he provided years of entertainment for car enthusiasts. None of which should excuse his boorish behavior off-screen.

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

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Post by oytis » Sun, Aug 30, 2026, 9:54 PM UTC

jcynix wrote: post #152

oytis wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any solution relying on collective sacrifice is unrealistic IMO. I believe in geoingineering because it's better compatible with how economy works. Either that or we discover a magic abundant non-polluting energy source, but I woldn't rely on that

Oh, yes, geoengineering, because nothing can go wrong … Please read the classic book by Edward Tenner: Why Things Bite Back. Technology and the Revenge of Unintended Consequences, 1996 (oldie but goldie and must read for people who think technical solutions have no unintended (and irrevocable) consequences Mike eucalyptus trees in California, or the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_toad in Australia, among others.

A lot can go wrong, but a long is going wrong already. I think putting effort in trying to do it as safely as possible is more productive than trying to convince nations to become poorer voluntary. Alternative energy is important too, but so far it rather complements than replaces fossil fuel.

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

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Post by phillc73 » Sun, Aug 30, 2026, 9:54 PM UTC

MomsAVoxell wrote: post #4

Just took a train ride from Vienna to Budapest for a few days, and couldn’t help but notice how very, very dry everything is .. as an Australian living in Europe for a few decades now, I’ve always been intrigued by just how green everything is, literally something growing in every single crack in the pavement, or endless rolling green fields of prosperity during spring - whereas, where I’m from its year-long spinifex…

Also an Australian living in Austria (there’s a few of us), although not in Vienna.

Whenever I return to Australia (also mostly rural locations) the major difference I notice is bird life. There are so many more birds in Australia. Maybe they’re just noisier.

We put feeders out in our Austrian garden and do see plenty of small birds, as well as woodpeckers, crows and pigeons. However, in Australia there are lots of small birds too, like finches and wrens. As well as magpies, currawongs and the large noisy flocks of galahs and sulphur crested cockatoos. King parrots and rosellas regularly seen. Maybe it’s a regional Australia phenomenon, but it really stands out to me.

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

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Post by bamboozled » Sun, Aug 30, 2026, 9:58 PM UTC

youngtaff wrote: post #158

boudin wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a good amount of rain, but most of it just went straight to rivers as soil is really dry (think if try to get a dry sponge wet again, soil behave in a similar way). It helps but if there are no new rain episodes, water tables will stay low, soil dry in depth and most of the country in a complicated situation regarding water.

We’ve engineered so that rain water goes into rivers and out to sea. Whereas we really need to slow it down so that it permeates the ground

Forests

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

#258

Post by MrDresden » Sun, Aug 30, 2026, 10:01 PM UTC

jorvi wrote: post #235

microtonal wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think currently one of the biggest risks for The Netherlands is salinization. If there is not enough river water and the groundwater level is too low, sea water will push upward, contaminating the river beds and increasingly much soil around it. This summer they had to close locks to block seawater and to increase the fresh water level. Of course, this has a considerable economic damage, since it blocks inland ship…

Netherlands is also in a much worse position due to being downstream of literally everyone. It's going to be a huge future fight in the EU because all countries upstream will want to retain 'all' the water and the remaining low flow will still have all those countries their industries dumping toxic waste, meaning the ratio of water-waste will get ridiculous.

The Rhine, which becomes the Waal in the Netherlands, has been exceptionally low now for most of the summer and caused major issues for shipping.

It has only a single waterlock and so there is no retention of the water in it when a period of draughts like the ones this summer happen.

Germany has had a project for adding water locks to the Rhine ongoing in burocracy purgatory for the last 26 years now, and if this situation doesn't shake things up I don't think anything ever will.

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

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Post by MrDresden » Sun, Aug 30, 2026, 10:04 PM UTC

artisinal wrote: post #139

touwer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so dry, even in tne Netherlands and north of France. Amazing how quickly it goes

Drought in The Netherlands is artificial though. Millionaire farmers are pumping up water to water their crops during the day. Due to the heat most of the spray evaporates before it touches the plants. During the winter they artificially lower the ground water level for personal benefit. Also of this so they can gain even more millions by exporting all the food across the border. Time to block some more highways, des…

Not saying that Dutch farmers don't use a lot of water overall, but they have some of the most effective farming practices on the planet when it comes to water usage.

Re: Europe's summer drought is so extreme that desertification is a growing threat

#260

Post by SECProto » Sun, Aug 30, 2026, 10:11 PM UTC

bwindels wrote: post #212

api wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I've read tons of stuff like this. It won't work. You can absolutely trim a lot of fat from the modern lifestyle, but then you'll be left with a residual. Meanwhile the developing world will keep developing and we have no right to order them to stop. The idea that it's not possible is bullshit too, and it's still bullshit even if you ignore nuclear power. https://landartgenerator.org/blagi/wp-content/uploads/200…

I wasn't taking about ideology, I was talking about what is already happening. Here's a graph of total freight volume (a proxy for the real physical economy) in the EU 15 countries since 2000, notice the peak around 2008: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/road_go_ta_to...

> Here's a graph of total freight volume (a proxy for the real physical economy)

In 2008, people and businesses were still buying new computers every year or two, printing everything on paper, buying physical media. I don't know anyone that does this anymore. I don't think that is a good proxy.