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European Commission Revives Push for Encryption Backdoors in ProtectEU Strategy

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Re: European Commission Revives Push for Encryption Backdoors in ProtectEU Strategy

#71

Post by inigyou »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #25
yyny wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Law enforcement need lawful ways to enter a home" "See! The government is trying to pick all our locks" Okay dude. Taking off the tinfoil hat for a second here, but maybe they're just trying to do the thing they say they are doing, namely, lessen friction to obtain things like camera footage, financial data, and internet usage.

> "See! The government is trying to pick all our locks" Them having to bring lockpicks (or more commonly a battering ram) would be preferable. This is more like "all locks and locksmiths must only manufacture locks that can be opened with one of a handful of TSA-approved backdoor keys".

It's more like "locks are illegal because the police might need to get in".

There's a matter of scale and friction. If the police have to work for six hours to get into something, they can't mass-surveil that way. While we still might not like that, it's much better than mass surveillance.

It used to be like that - they'd have to clip an expensive machine onto someone's phone line to record who they called. They'd have to tail someone to know where they went. Criminal still got caught in those days.

Re: European Commission Revives Push for Encryption Backdoors in ProtectEU Strategy

#72

Post by inigyou »

nerdalytics wrote: post #9
microtonal wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. This is also why we should resist getting locked further into the Apple/Google duopoly. In such closed systems it will be straightforward to require backdoors. Much harder if we have general-purpose computers that we can run our own software on.

That's why for wallet features only Apple and Google are allowed. Condition everyone picking only iOS or Android, but not Linux, or others.

This is why you shouldn't use a phone wallet. Doesn't your bank give you a card?

Re: European Commission Revives Push for Encryption Backdoors in ProtectEU Strategy

#73

Post by inigyou »

throw0101a wrote: post #26

Signal, Apple iMessage, and WhatsApp have to announce at some point that they will simply stop providing services to any country/region that insists on breaking E2EE. All you'll be left with is unencrypted RCS. It's a bit of a 'nuclear option', but at the end of the day, once one jurisdiction forces them to break the math, every other one will as well. IMHO, it's the only way to force the proponent(s) of these propos…

They don't have to. Signal, in particular, since it's not connected to massive revenue streams, can just wait to see if the country blocks it.

Re: European Commission Revives Push for Encryption Backdoors in ProtectEU Strategy

#74

Post by inigyou »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #40
tonis2 wrote: post #35

Stuff like that make people want to leave EU, not some "enemy propaganda" which is real unfortunate in current times.

If you read /r/europe, you would be convinced that the reason that some people are against the EU is only because of: - Russian trolls - US trolls - Chinese trolls Its never the EU's fault. Never is there a sense of saying, maybe we should try to understand why people do not agree with us. It's my way or the highway and if you don't agree or criticize the EU in any way shape or form then you are just a far-right extr…

Here we see something posted from 18 months ago as if it's happening today. In the intervening time, the democracy rejected the proposal. So what is this post if not fearmongering by some kind of troll?

Re: European Commission Revives Push for Encryption Backdoors in ProtectEU Strategy

#75

Post by ExoticPearTree »

So "Think of the children" did not work and now they go about it with "Fear the Russians" or "Fear the Chinese" or whatever boogieman they're looking at creating.

From the article: "The new EU strategy promises that cybersecurity and fundamental rights will be protected as a future encryption backdoor is implemented." - so a revival of "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" mantra?

The question that I have: what do they fear so much they spend so much time and effort trying to weaken or outright ban end-to-end encryption for private communications?

Re: European Commission Revives Push for Encryption Backdoors in ProtectEU Strategy

#76

Post by LaurensBER »

shevy-java wrote: post #64
p_l wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately every attempt at reforming it is blocked with "but my sovereignty!" - as EC and Council of Ministers are very much controlled and steered by member nations' governments . Not to mention it makes for perfect scapegoat

That is also true - national countries sabotage any reform. Basically the EU would have to be designed anew from the get go, but lobbyists will prevent this from ever happening.

I have many concerns about the rise of populism in Europe but the (few/very few) good things that might come out of this is that there will finally be (enough?) pressure on the EU to reform.

Despite all their talk about being pro human-rights and pro democracy in practice the voter turnout percentages for the EU elections are extremely low. As an EU citizen I almost never meet someone who's interested or who feel represented by the EU. There's, no doubt, several reasons for it but the biggest one might be that an additional abstraction layer that's cultural too far away from the average voter.

Re: European Commission Revives Push for Encryption Backdoors in ProtectEU Strategy

#77

Post by bojan »

shevy-java wrote: post #64
p_l wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately every attempt at reforming it is blocked with "but my sovereignty!" - as EC and Council of Ministers are very much controlled and steered by member nations' governments . Not to mention it makes for perfect scapegoat

That is also true - national countries sabotage any reform. Basically the EU would have to be designed anew from the get go, but lobbyists will prevent this from ever happening.

The last concrete attempt was blocked at Dutch and French referenda, not the lobbyists.

That was in 2004. Since then, basically any referendum about anything related to the EU anywhere returns a negative result, with a couple of small exceptions like a Danish defense opt-out.

So the money doesn't really go to the lobbying, more to the population-wide propaganda.

And the money is available, as it's in the interest of both the major state actors as the major corporations for the EU to weaken and dissolve.

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