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FreeCORE TrueNAS Core – Continued

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Re: FreeCORE TrueNAS Core – Continued

#81

Post by a2ff6eeb0 »

globular-toast wrote: post #55
a2ff6eeb0 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody wants to fund it. But, at this point, AI makes code cheap enough that I would just fork the open source software and maintain it, instead of paying for a third party. Heck, even with saas, I may clone internally.

You want to vibe code your own NAS and filesystem software? AI makes code cheap, it doesn't make true understanding and expertise cheap.

Sure it does. It's as already better at spotting bugs than human programmers.

The entire reason to use it is because it's trained on huge amounts of expertise.

Re: FreeCORE TrueNAS Core – Continued

#82

Post by bigstrat2003 »

tw04 wrote: post #73
ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They chose to base their enterprise on the work of others, only to pull the ladder up behind them. Fuck that noise. They are the ones breaking the social contract, not the folks criticizing them for it. Shameful of you.

> They chose to base their enterprise on the work of others, only to pull the ladder up behind them. This is literally why BSD exists in the first place. To allow companies compete freedom with the code, including freedom to not release changes. I hate to break it to you: basically every commercial storage vendor on the planet bases their appliances on either BSD or Linux and not a single one is sharing their proprie…

> This is literally why BSD exists in the first place. To allow companies compete freedom with the code, including freedom to not release changes.

I would phrase it slightly differently. BSD licensing exists to allow everyone complete freedom with the code, not just businesses. It is a gift to the commons without restriction on who may use it or for what, which is why I love BSD (and other permissive licenses).

Re: FreeCORE TrueNAS Core – Continued

#83

Post by bigstrat2003 »

mightyham wrote: post #67
president_zippy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't deserve to be downvoted to hell and back. People deserve to be paid for their work, and without copyright law only mega-cap companies would ever be able to capture enough value from their work to survive. People act like you're saying Disney should be able to hold a copyright on Mickey Mouse for over 100 years. Calling it a "rug pull" when the creator of an open source project decides to stop giving away f…

Open-source is an inherently radical anti-capitalist philosophy. In your eyes everyone "deserves" what the market is willing to pay, but open-source developers would rather donate their time and energy to create or contribute to something that is freely accessible to anyone and everyone. Also, believe it or not, but some people are not motivated by money, and actually derive value from the process of creating softwar…

> Open-source is an inherently radical anti-capitalist philosophy.

No it isn't. Open source isn't inherently political in any way. Maybe that's what it's about to you, but I open source things because I want to give to others out of a general sense of wishing to build up the whole community. I don't have anything against capitalism.

Re: FreeCORE TrueNAS Core – Continued

#84

Post by inventor7777 »

a2ff6eeb0 wrote: post #79
inventor7777 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is fair - but your wording makes it sound like he is going to set aside his brain and let AI tools do all the kernel-related work for him, which I don't think will happen. As far as I see it, he is vibe coding tools for himself but (hopefully) still manually monitoring crucial bits of software like Linux.

He's not writing code in the kernel these days, and I don't think AI will get him coding again. Maybe Ted Ts'o will be doing the vibing. But AI is already better than most people at coding, so obviously Linux is going to end up vibe coded.

That's true. I just meant reviewing certain changes and whatnot.

I suppose the key is whether you consider vibe coding a bad thing or a good thing. Because if it's good, then that's good news, right?

Re: FreeCORE TrueNAS Core – Continued

#85

Post by a2ff6eeb0 »

inventor7777 wrote: post #84
a2ff6eeb0 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not writing code in the kernel these days, and I don't think AI will get him coding again. Maybe Ted Ts'o will be doing the vibing. But AI is already better than most people at coding, so obviously Linux is going to end up vibe coded.

That's true. I just meant reviewing certain changes and whatnot. I suppose the key is whether you consider vibe coding a bad thing or a good thing. Because if it's good, then that's good news, right?

yeah, I bet we're going to have Linux built without humans in the loop within a decade. Progress is going to be so fast.

Re: FreeCORE TrueNAS Core – Continued

#86

Post by mightyham »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #83
mightyham wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open-source is an inherently radical anti-capitalist philosophy. In your eyes everyone "deserves" what the market is willing to pay, but open-source developers would rather donate their time and energy to create or contribute to something that is freely accessible to anyone and everyone. Also, believe it or not, but some people are not motivated by money, and actually derive value from the process of creating softwar…

> Open-source is an inherently radical anti-capitalist philosophy. No it isn't. Open source isn't inherently political in any way. Maybe that's what it's about to you, but I open source things because I want to give to others out of a general sense of wishing to build up the whole community. I don't have anything against capitalism.

First off, in some sense everything is political. Next, I am not claiming that you can't be supporter of open source while also holding a wide array of associated political views. My point is that the concept of open source fundamentally rejects the ideal capitalist conception of the world as a bunch of purely rational self-interested agents seeking to optimize wealth and economic output. Willingly performing labor for its own sake, for the benefit of others, with no expectation of return value, is obviously not capitalist behavior.

Re: FreeCORE TrueNAS Core – Continued

#87

Post by pstuart »

president_zippy wrote: post #21
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it not enough to give you all of their code for free? Why do they also have obligations and expectations beyond that? The entitlement never ends! > At work the trend is only adopt open source on a paid plan, adopting or relying on open source otherwise is just waiting for the rug to be pulled. "Won't do free labour for our commercial enterprise to profit off of forever" is a rug pull now? It's incredible that…

You didn't deserve to be downvoted to hell and back. People deserve to be paid for their work, and without copyright law only mega-cap companies would ever be able to capture enough value from their work to survive. People act like you're saying Disney should be able to hold a copyright on Mickey Mouse for over 100 years. Calling it a "rug pull" when the creator of an open source project decides to stop giving away f…

I effectively agree with you, but your last comment is interesting in the usage of the word "courage". My understanding of D. Richard Hipp's state of being is that he feels fairly financially compensated (via support contracts), and more so, emotionally compensated by knowing that his work adds value to other people's lives and having value in that.

Money's a good thing to have, but having purpose in life is incredibly valuable too.

Re: FreeCORE TrueNAS Core – Continued

#88

Post by roryirvine »

president_zippy wrote: post #21
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it not enough to give you all of their code for free? Why do they also have obligations and expectations beyond that? The entitlement never ends! > At work the trend is only adopt open source on a paid plan, adopting or relying on open source otherwise is just waiting for the rug to be pulled. "Won't do free labour for our commercial enterprise to profit off of forever" is a rug pull now? It's incredible that…

You didn't deserve to be downvoted to hell and back. People deserve to be paid for their work, and without copyright law only mega-cap companies would ever be able to capture enough value from their work to survive. People act like you're saying Disney should be able to hold a copyright on Mickey Mouse for over 100 years. Calling it a "rug pull" when the creator of an open source project decides to stop giving away f…

An ironic choice of hypothetical given that SQLite's present ubiquity is a result of a very similar licensing rug-pull on the part of Berkeley DB, after Sleepycat's acquisition by Oracle.

And, in turn, bdb gained prominence on the back of AT&T claiming copyright on ndbm during the Unix Wars.

So there's a long history of this, and plenty of precedents which suggest that such a move would make very little money and would likely result in a better alternative quickly rising to take its place.

I suspect that Hipp understands this, and is unlikely to do anything of the sort.

Re: FreeCORE TrueNAS Core – Continued

#89

Post by Brian_K_White »

Grombobulous wrote: post #74
Brian_K_White wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless the estimated quality of the new thing, there is a point and a value in penalizing the old thing when it fails to adhere to principles. One must have principles onesself to see this as imortant though. A lot of people use words like "practical" or "pragmatic" to avoid inconvenience. I've already been using zVault for a year which is a fork of the last truenas core, but it never got any further updates and…

I totally understand why you’ve made those choices. It just might be worth questioning how much of your own time these principles are worth. This entire time you’ve been swapping between NAS distros fiddling with your NAS box my TrueNAS SCALE installation has required approximately zero of my time and has never lost the ability to be updated. To me, the NAS aspect of my homelab is the least interesting and is somethi…

They probably didn't do anything illegal. They did something I don't approve of.

Since I am not one of their C suite or majority shareholders, I have no other way to express what I want and what I don't want.

The usual answer if you don't like something is take it or leave it. So I leave it. Talking about it someplace public like here, I am not trying to be demanding or entitled or anything, just documenting why I choose to leave it, or why one might choose to leave it, even if it's inconvenient.

Re: FreeCORE TrueNAS Core – Continued

#90

Post by Brian_K_White »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #36
Brian_K_White wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do not give all of the code. If you have an object, and don't have everything needed to reproduce the object, then you have not been given the source to the object. And with BSD licenced code this is their right. And it's my and anyone else's right to observe all of this and criticize it.

Likewise, it is my right to criticise you for exercising your right to criticise them. Nobody said you aren't allowed to, but just as anyone is allowed to whine about not being given enough free stuff, I'm allowed to call out that they're acting like an entitled child in public. Just because you can legally do something doesn't mean that it is socially acceptable to do so.

No one is whining about not being given enough free stuff, and you in fact have no right to criticize people for something they aren't doing.

For my part, I'm simply opting for "leave it" out of "take it or leave it". I merely say WHY I'm leaving it, but choosing to use something else rather than reward trunas for doing something I don't like is not whining or demanding or childish.

Here is childish: You can go fuck yourself for attempting to characterize it that way.

Now you have something to criticize dickface.

Wow, that was easy, it's almost like calling people names is effortless and we can all do that, and not a very valid argument.

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