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Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

texastribune.org

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Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#151

Post by SwellJoe »

bob1029 wrote: post #144
exabrial wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to live in a world where thieves feared for their lives.

I think that world largely exists. There are some counties in Texas where crime is essentially negligible. I live a few minutes away from one of the facilities where capital punishment is administered. The local community is extremely pleasant. I don't bother locking my doors at home or at the grocery store. The only place any real crime occurs is within a few hundred yards of the interstate. Target and Home Depot ge…

Texas has among the highest crime rates in the country, 17th for violent crime, even worse for property crime. Given the wealth of Texas, having such high crime rates is even more embarrassing (crime and poverty go hand in hand, but Texas doesn't have that excuse). In short, you're talking out of your ass.

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#152

Post by dmurray »

butvacuum wrote: post #115
ceejayoz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://guides.sll.texas.gov/gun-laws/stand-your-ground links to https://www.uslawshield.com/defend-property-texas/ > Texas law allows you to use deadly force to protect property if you would be justified in using force, and you reasonably believe it is immediately necessary to prevent the imminent commission of specific enumerated property crimes. These are arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during…

First off- Texas has an explicit law making copper and catalytic converter theft a "Jail felony"- but if you break any other laws on the way, it's upgraded to a class 3 felony. See: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/?tab=1&code=PE&chapter=PE... And. if you really want to play cops and robbers, a personally witnessed jail felony seems to be enough for a citzen's arrest. Second: "(B) the use of force other than deadly…

Afraid for your life if you were to confront the thief.

That reasonably covers pretty much all cases, especially in a state where lots of people have guns.

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#153

Post by jstanley »

earth-tattoo wrote: post #71
huimang wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A catalytic converter can be replaced, a life cannot. So don't go around stealing catalytic converters. Same deal with states with "stand your ground laws". It's astonishingly easy to not get shot: don't invade someone's home. And on the "replacing" part- on whose dime? What if someone's only means of transportation is affected, and they lose wages or outright lose their job? Are you going to pay for it? Of course…

All lives are not equal. The value of the life of a thief whose only impact on the society is negative, cannot be compared to e.g. a doctor.

Do you also define yourself according to the worst thing you've ever done?

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#154

Post by jstanley »

ssl-3 wrote: post #127
budman1 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I kill you over a $2K catalytic converter, my sanity is gone. I could never sleep at night without thinking about what I have done.' A life is worth a lot more than $2k for my sanity.

I was once beaten senseless by a group of 3 young men when I decided to take an early-morning walk to get some smokes from the store down the way, in a sleepy small city in Ohio. There was nothing that I was doing that was wrong in any way. I was quietly minding my own business when they came up from behind me with other ideas and one of them hit me in the side of my face, from behind, with an intensity that I'd neve…

In your other comment you state that you've taken 3 different types of combat training (concealed carry, martial arts, army basic). I am curious if you did all this training after the incident with the 3 young men or before?

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#155

Post by bluecalm »

hopelessluca wrote: post #34
SoftTalker wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Texas I'm surprised it's not legal to shoot a catalytic converter thief if caught in the act. That's what they used to do for cattle rustlers.

My comment may sound cliché, but I genuinely believe this, no material possession is worth more than a human life. A catalytic converter can be replaced, a life cannot.

It's easy to say that. Not so easy to take responsibility for those views and compensate the victim which is often forced to work several months to cover the damage, may lose their job or their life is otherwise negatively affected.

"Let's not harm the thief but force the victim to cover the damages" is what it comes down to and imo it's a very immoral stance.

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#156

Post by drawfloat »

worldsavior wrote: post #143
DarmokTanagra wrote: post #60

For a country that staged a revolution over a tea tax modern Americans sure seem to love having their rights trampled.

Weird how people view "Americans" as different species. Never have I seen someone say "Europeans", "Germans"... "These Americans", "Modern Americans".

You've never seen someone refer to Europeans or Germans..?

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#157

Post by awolf »

alex43578 wrote: post #140
moralestapia wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, it's not called a "right", it's the fourth amendment, and federal statutes and state laws and whatnot. You got me there, pal ;) I didn't use the exact technical terms you expected, my argument is now void, nooo. I guess I should go and install one of those cameras right outside my house now.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" in case you forgot. I'm not saying you have to reply in a technical term - just explain how being seen and recorded driving down a public street, in a vehicle that's required to display an identifiable plate you've registered with the government, constitutes a search, seizure, or even an in…

[flagged]

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#158

Post by bluecalm »

budman1 wrote: post #57
hopelessluca wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment may sound cliché, but I genuinely believe this, no material possession is worth more than a human life. A catalytic converter can be replaced, a life cannot.

If I kill you over a $2K catalytic converter, my sanity is gone. I could never sleep at night without thinking about what I have done.' A life is worth a lot more than $2k for my sanity.

It's almost never $2k and then they go to live a normal life. You don't shoot them there they steal yet again and maybe harm someone in the process. I was a victim a theft a few times and violent assault 2 times. Although I managed to escape both times and could afford to replace my property I wish someone else shot them or I had a chance to do it - as a favor to future victims.

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#159

Post by awolf »

alex43578 wrote: post #135
eternauta3k wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not American, but 1. I don't think Texas was around during the Tea Party, and 2. Property is also a right, so this is just about how much privacy you are willing to sacrifice for how much property.

I've yet to hear a convincing connection between driving down a public road and having privacy - in fact, the outside of a registered motor vehicle on a public road is about as non-private as you can expect. You already have a unique plate tied to the registered owner of the car, and a range of court cases have held you can be stopped, ordered out of the car, questioned (by both police and immigration enforcement), e…

It's not about your vehicle being seen in public at a single point in time, it's the fact that this system captures everyone's patterns of life. School, doctor, shooting range, church, play, protest. When, when, how often. All tracked and packaged up in a commercial database, without warrant or justification.

If you happened upon me on a public street, I'd say "that I'm here on this street now is not private information".

If you installed sensors across the entire city with 2-5 block resolution and could tell me everywhere I have been in the last 30 days (and hence where I'm liable to be tomorrow), I'd say "you are grossly violating my right to be secure in my person against unreasonable search - this is wrong".

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#160

Post by HarlequinHair »

earth-tattoo wrote: post #71
huimang wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A catalytic converter can be replaced, a life cannot. So don't go around stealing catalytic converters. Same deal with states with "stand your ground laws". It's astonishingly easy to not get shot: don't invade someone's home. And on the "replacing" part- on whose dime? What if someone's only means of transportation is affected, and they lose wages or outright lose their job? Are you going to pay for it? Of course…

All lives are not equal. The value of the life of a thief whose only impact on the society is negative, cannot be compared to e.g. a doctor.

I agree with the general concept, but it's not practical to use.

What about a bad medic? Or a thief that helps homeless people in their free time?

If it was easy, we would have simpler laws and better justice systems...

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