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Re: Hy4 preview

#161
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still call them stochastic parrots, but believe what they are revealing is that we are all stochastic parrots to some extent. I simply don't see how biological computation (i.e. thinking) can be anything else. Similar to the reveal in west world, we are likely much simpler than we give ourselves credit for. A "train of thought" can be seen as a trace of a depth first search where the preceding trace is used to guid…

As long as there's enough of them with different goals it doesn't matter, they'll keep each other in check. The worlds resources are already handed over to the worst people and we're still doing fine and none of the billionaires are "aligned with society". They just align with their own belly but because they want different things it all kinda works.

These “worst people” need you. They physically need you alive to perform labor for them and to give them money (and status).

That’s the reason we are “doing fine”. Once they stop needing you..

Also, both our comments brush over the generational struggles for fairness over the centuries. We have fought to be “fine”, it did not just happen. Without fairness being introduced by force you and I would be slaving away in some sweatshop getting paid nickels as was the norm not so long ago.

Edit: That’s also assuming you are Caucasian. If you are of a different ethnicity.. well, historically, all bets are off. You could also be the literal possession of some of these “worst people” with not even your own children considered yours.

Re: Hy4 preview

#162
post #159
post #44

> [...] Let's maybe add a helmet? It could improve riding theme, but may obscure head. Maybe a small cycling cap or helmet? The user didn't ask; can add red helmet? Might be cute. But pelican with big beak; a helmet might obscure. Better maybe no. > Maybe add sunglasses? no. > Maybe add water? no. https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht...

This is a remarkable coherent and clear reasoning trace. Maybe you should start also comparing reasoning traces when you do your pelican benchmark.

That would be very interesting but only the open models allow you to see the reasoning trace

Re: Hy4 preview

#163
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenRouter randomizes which provider gets your request by default right? I think you have to pass a specific provider in the request to prevent that. (Or set up a preset or something.) This behavior makes it so you don't benefit much from the caching, unless you pin it to a single provider.

> This behavior makes it so you don't benefit much from the caching I don't believe this is correct? AFAIK once it routes you to a provider for a given conversation that choice is sticky unless you hit technical difficulties. (It's more complicated than that, they recently added named routing strategies that you can append to the model name.) IMO the relevant metric is cache TTL which isn't typically published AFAIK.

This is very much NOT my experience in practice, even though it's how I would expect it to work. OpenRouter will happily bounce you between several providers (none of which have downtime) even within the same session. Requesting specific providers is the only way I've been able to hit a cache rate above 90%.

Re: Hy4 preview

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're arguing the same general point that the person you're responding to is. But you're saying he's not understanding - he understands that they report a cache hit % but you can't look at that public metric with any level of accuracy _because_ most people aren't pinning their providers and they _are_ getting juggled around which is bringing that metric down. That's not to say that specific providers might h…

I know what they're saying. Why would openrouter calculate it thay way lol. They obviously dont. Think for a sec, they arent idiots.

How else would you expect them to calculate it?

Re: Hy4 preview

#165
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone can look at that reasoning trace and see a stochastic parrot next word prediction machine, we don't understand those words in the same way.

Yeah, it has been clear for a long time that there is reasoning and mental modeling going on here. The other option is that you do understand those words the same way, and the people making these (now nonsensical) anti-AI claims simply aren’t talking about the same programs/models we are. Their idea of SOTA is when chatgpt.com launched. If you took a point sample pre-Opus, and didn’t write a good prompt, of course yo…

Maybe get yourself checked for chatbot psychosis. I am using current models productively, every day, and have 0 (and I mean precisely, literally 0) issue with calling it a stochastic parrot, one which lacks any kind of mentality whatsoever. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that this is purely a statistical model, generating sequences of words, that happen to make sense in our actual mentality.

Re: Hy4 preview

#166
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote about this a couple of weeks ago. It's actually often the biggest cost and it tends to be hidden away on most platforms! https://martinalderson.com/posts/watch-out-for-cache-read-co... Btw I still haven't came across any decent model that is Seems like a bit of an opportunity for someone to take - drop cache read costs significantly.

For me, an average long session results in about 200-300M cached input, 4-800K input, 2-400K output. Mostly the lower bound. Output depends on how much the model thinks. There are two problems here: - cache hit pricing (both Muse Spark 1.2 Contributor and MiMo 2.5 are around the $0.002-3/M mark) - cache persistence time Muse Spark drops the cache in less than 5m. MiMo keeps it around for at least an hour based on my…

even with the 5m cache, Muse Spark Contribs is still best bang for your buck for the intelligence you get.

it is basically the old dsv4-flash prices, but even more smart.

Re: Hy4 preview

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to be able to generate my own Simlilirian movie by dumping the content of a book into an LLM. Both animated and live action results would be acceptable. Unfortunately most existing LLMs lack the capability to maintain context across tens of thousands of frames.

That sounds like an interesting challenge. Have you seriously considered solving it? Because in about 10 seconds I came up with a process that should work, provided enough compute power. Simply model the traditional film making process by starting with a script, character stories. Design your world, then design the storyboard, and all the scenes. Create a list of all the visual elements that need to be replicated bet…

> Have you seriously considered solving it?

Sort of, but I want it to be relatively low on human effort. I feel burned by spending lots of time in 2023 learning image generation pipelines (using control net etc) only for that to be rendered trivial by the next generation of LLMs.

This movie would be only for personal consumption and I’m okay with waiting for model improvements.

Re: Hy4 preview

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to be able to generate my own Simlilirian movie by dumping the content of a book into an LLM. Both animated and live action results would be acceptable. Unfortunately most existing LLMs lack the capability to maintain context across tens of thousands of frames.

The results are boring. Not because the content is boring, but because you can so easily remix the results. Human curation is what creates value with these, not dumping and consuming. A personal perspective of a human being ups the respect, where the exact same sentences generated by an LLM carry no such value.

Tolkien did the human creative work - I just want a movie adaptation that’s as honest to the original text as possible. Think translating the text into video.

Re: Hy4 preview

#170
We humans should adopt grug, instead of claudish. It seems simple to understand. And has this melancholical feeling
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