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I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

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Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#91

About 15 years ago it really started to get corporate. Big money came in and created camps with air conditioning, huge RV's no bartering, etc. Dustin Moskovitz and the like started going and wouldn't dare behave the ordinary peasants, by sleeping in tents, participating in the community, bartering for things. Heck Zuckerberg took a helicopter there one year. instead they just threw money at the event so they wouldn't…

Bartering is not a thing at the burn. It intended to be a gift-based event.

Rainbow Gathering is barter-based.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#92

About 15 years ago it really started to get corporate. Big money came in and created camps with air conditioning, huge RV's no bartering, etc. Dustin Moskovitz and the like started going and wouldn't dare behave the ordinary peasants, by sleeping in tents, participating in the community, bartering for things. Heck Zuckerberg took a helicopter there one year. instead they just threw money at the event so they wouldn't…

What are you talking 'corporate' - there are no corporate sponsors, and people having been coming in with their big camp A/C rvs for 25 years at least.

There's an airport there for 30 years - people have been flying airplanes and helicoptors forever.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#93
If he has not been there since 1996 then I don't think he has a right to be talking about it like this, honestly, it's kind of sad trash talk.

Maybe he's right but he'd have to articulate it. It's a relatively authentic and vibrant thing. Maybe not as new or quite as punk, but it's 'something'.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#94

About 15 years ago it really started to get corporate. Big money came in and created camps with air conditioning, huge RV's no bartering, etc. Dustin Moskovitz and the like started going and wouldn't dare behave the ordinary peasants, by sleeping in tents, participating in the community, bartering for things. Heck Zuckerberg took a helicopter there one year. instead they just threw money at the event so they wouldn't…

It’s funny the way having money and participating in something “the easy way” removes the coolness / authenticity from the experience.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#95
post #88
post #60

I have attended festivals for more than half of my life and they're all suspectable to the same gentrification problem as cool neighborhoods: fun/artsy people create fun environments, fun environments attract others who genuinely appreciate fun/artsy but are professionals themselves, professionals attract other professionals but shallower with more money. Or, in short, they get hugged to death. Rinse, repeat. Same th…

There was a sentence early on in the article, “San Francisco has always been a place people came to re-create themselves — running from something, running toward something exciting and unknown, going as far as they could for a shot at a new life.” although I think the tense there should probably be more “used to be” than “has always been” thanks to the same gentrification influence. I feel like much of California has…

Dalton Caldwell and Michael Seibel have talked about a similar phenomenon applied to YC and startups in general. It seems that early on it was a weird and nonconformist career move, but now it has become something that is done out of the same conforming impulse that going to school or working at a big firm mean to an individual in society.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#96
post #4

> ...the festival I helped invent 36 years ago. Curiously, I get this interest even though I haven’t set foot in the Black Rock Desert since 1996. Not doubting the headline conclusion, but I would have expected a better source than someone who hasn't been to Burning Man in literally 30 years. AFAICT, Burning Man was still very well regarded ~20 years ago, long after this founder stopped attending

He also neglected to mention that Larry Harvey attended up through his death, afaik. Or how deeply affected the city was the year Larry died.

Or that the man design was done for so long by a close collaborator of Larry’s. And that the man base has been frequently spectacular both on fire and not.

The historical perspective and old photos are great but I’m not much for the conclusion. I would be willing to bet the title and byline are editorialized by the publisher.

You can still go out there with not much, be new and participate and just smile at some famous or not person also on their way back from the Portos.

There is a lot of money involved, no doubt and there is a lot of bullshit too, like art cars that do fundraisers and take volunteer contributions only to remain largely private vessels for a particular crew, a few celebs etc.

And there’s a lot to not like about the org or how art grants are handled, it’s a big system it has the exploits and nepotism that might infect anything scaled and offering power.

But if you go and do not look closely and just give in small ways none of that would likely be visible to you.

You could have the time of your life. Or not. Which I think suggests the opportunity for adventure and chaos still remains at that thing in the desert.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regional burns are a thing, and they're pretty awesome.

They can be, but unfortunately the org has threatened to revoke official regional burn status unless they followed all the same rules, in particular, that children be allowed. There used to be some leeway on that, and there were really wonderful regional burns that did not permit kids. They were forced to, which resulted in the "real" burn being in a small taped off area. Seems insane to me to think kids should be at…

I usually camp where I can get some distance from the noise, which means I hang out with the burner parents and their kids. It's really great to see all of the ways that burners adapt their art so that kids can participate, and the kids bring a pretty excellent energy also.

Most recently I was navigating this wooden maze, lots of tight spaces and odd bends necessary to get through it. Part way through I encountered a bunch of kids who weren't tall enough to get over a ledge (they navigated the rest of the thing with ease). I made myself into stairs for them and they completed it. Later I had an epic foam sword fight with the same bunch. It was super fun.

I've never been to the big burn, so maybe I'm just missing out on the magic of whatever you mean by the "real" burn (although many of the people at my regional say it isn't worth it), but I don't think anything was lost by having the kids around.

Their parents are convinced that it's raising a child in default society that's the more dangerous thing, and after talking with several of them I'm convinced as well.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#98

Curiously, I found this 1995 SFGate article offering a related perspective: > Many participants tell me this is the last year the event will be bearable before it "goes commercial." https://www.sfgate.com/style/article/Communal-art-in-the-des...

And funny enough, John Law himself has basically been saying the same thing since the late '90s. He's been shaking his fist at this particular cloud for over twenty-five years, so I'm not sure why an opinion piece like this is even noteworthy at this point. FWIW, for a lot of us, the magic is still there. Most of the city exists outside of the shiny Instagram influencers that seem to dominate the narrative. We're sti…

I always get here early, before the event officially opens, in part to get an up close view of all the art and camps going up.

(I'm still not used to easy internet access at BRC, he says as he browses HN from his camp)

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#99
post #88
post #60

I have attended festivals for more than half of my life and they're all suspectable to the same gentrification problem as cool neighborhoods: fun/artsy people create fun environments, fun environments attract others who genuinely appreciate fun/artsy but are professionals themselves, professionals attract other professionals but shallower with more money. Or, in short, they get hugged to death. Rinse, repeat. Same th…

There was a sentence early on in the article, “San Francisco has always been a place people came to re-create themselves — running from something, running toward something exciting and unknown, going as far as they could for a shot at a new life.” although I think the tense there should probably be more “used to be” than “has always been” thanks to the same gentrification influence. I feel like much of California has…

> When you read about people coming to California in the 60s and 70s (and somewhat in the 80s), it had that same magical quality that Burning Man had in the early years and has suffered the same kinds of changes. I wonder what the 2026 equivalent of going to California is now, if such a thing even exists or can exist.

I look at LA and I look at cities in China and it makes LA look like a rural suburb the difference in population density is so vast.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#100
post #46

I started going in 2002 and have friends who have gone every year since then. There has been a meme that burning man sucks now and used to be better that entire time. That doesn't mean the meme is false. It definitely has changed. There's an article in sfgate today that quotes the head of the Death Guild (Thunderdome) camp as saying something like, do people want to carry on the traditions their parents had, or inven…

It was better next year.
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