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EVE Online moves to Python 3

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Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#161

Post by rdtsc »

est wrote: post #16

Stackless python had such potential, it could be extremely useful in Agent era for long running tasks with durable state. modern Python went in a somewhat different direction with asyncio, but with tasklet and continuation it could be a much powerful combo.

> modern Python went in a somewhat different direction with asyncio,

I'll say more, it went the wrong direction. I see async thing in Python as a step backwards. For some reason Guido heard of Twisted and deferreds and somehow got influenced by it, and here we are with "async def" and "await" sprinkled all over the place.

I mean, we had stackless, eventlet, gevent, we could have started something from that. We even had the example of Erlang and with a much better concurrency pattern. Go went with goroutines and channels and in retrospect made the right choice, not as good as Erlang/Elixir imo but still better than sprinkling async everywhere.

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#162

Post by speedstyle »

alexaholic wrote: post #64
WarmWash wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain to my non-programmer self what the deal is with Rust? Even not being in the tech space, I have long picked up on this quasi-religous aura around it.

Rust is a tool that allows one to build cars for humans to drive, in order to avoid certain accidents. If you try to put your dog in the driver’s seat of a Rust-powered car, Rust will stop you and ask you to produce proof that the dog is a qualified human driver. The world is a pretty big place, so of course there are people who sometimes put their dog in the driver’s seat. Sometimes by accident, sometimes out of nec…

I for one don't care about memory safety. Rust makes it easier to compose software by expressing everything in your function/module signature. This is what OOP aimed to do, but was quite prescriptive (a datatype often isn't the natural unit of encapsulation). It maximizes local reasoning, so you can make changes to a large codebase with less understanding of uses elsewhere, and reuse functionality in new ways without changes.

C#, Go, Swift are (mostly) memory safe, but I don't think they provide this level of modularity or broader reliability. Expressive interfaces/contracts are useful for all sorts of things, you can use them for memory management but for me that's almost a by-product. I certainly don't consider it a restriction on the kinds of program you can write

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#164

Post by aunty_helen »

bfung wrote: post #137

1/2 troll side-galley comment: use AI and translate to Rust. If the outcome or outputs / test cases are known, AI is great at language translations.

I’ve been doing this on a large system I’m building. Anything that takes longer than an hour to run, processes a high rate of events (maybe >5/s averaged over a day) or has downstream gpu waiting for it.

Python + tests cross compiled to rust has huge benefits for memory footprint and secondly cpu.

It’s allowing me to achieve wonders on a small amount of hardware.

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#165

Post by esikich »

scrapcode wrote: post #117
wincy wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who really no life fit and played WoW, Dwarf Fortress, and EVE in my 20s, you didn’t miss much. My most momentous EVE achievement was betraying my online “friends” who had mostly stopped playing, blowing up all their expensive ships for the insurance payout, then like a true space pirate losing all my ill gotten gains playing Space Poker. EVE (and other MMOs) had their moment and the ideas of MMOs with a p…

I still can't figure out what the appeal of WoW was, but I'm guessing it was the insanely large community?

Planning 40 man raids was a part time job. Everyone worked together to grind out materials for potions and stuff and you really had to work together on dungeons to get through them, whether that was acquiring better gear or practicing strategies. The payoff of working on a dungeon for a month and finally clearing a boss was so satisfying. It created real comraderie.

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#166

Post by brandly »

wavemode wrote: post #145
Cakez0r wrote: post #33

> So how do you migrate 2.4 million lines of code? > Very carefully, and in multiple stages. That answer is so 3 months ago

Knowing game codebases, I'm guessing their test coverage was not fantastic. Agents weren't gonna get it done.

I have an idea how to fill in the missing tests.

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#168

Post by laughing_man »

sph wrote: post #92
squigz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has changed about the EVE economy that you don't like? > Buy low, sell high. Specialize in industry, trading, transportation I did all of this, quite profitably and for quite a long time, in EVE?

I don't like how EVE is run, and the pay-to-win mechanics added over the years to entice the whales. I'm looking at the problem with the eyes of a prospective game dev, and saying that there should be more games focused on free market economy, which is often just a half-arsed mechanic on the side, not the core game.

I played EVE for many years, and I really hated the addition of skill injectors. When I first started playing, the only way to get your skills up was to spend the time training them. Now it just takes real money cash.

There's a legitimate argument for some P2W mechanics, though. To keep a game going you need new players, and if you're looking at losing every PvP encounter for years as you skill up your character you probably won't stay.

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#169

Post by laughing_man »

ceejayoz wrote: post #61
chorizo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever do wish to go back, request Signal Cartel to rescue you. Rescuing people from wormholes is exactly what they do. I was with them for years.

Wait, EVE has a volunteer search-and-rescue group?

Yep. My wormhole corp would shoot just about anyone we ran across except Signal Cartel. You get a bad rep killing those guys.

Re: EVE Online moves to Python 3

#170

Post by laughing_man »

cbm-vic-20 wrote: post #140
nntwozz wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started in 2004 and played on and off until 2015 with a quick stint in 2020. It was amazing in the early days, it felt like nothing else. I had a background in Ultima Online and Dark Age of Camelot. I liked PVP and I wanted full loot drop on kill. EVE online has many times been referred to as the spiritual successor of UO, what made it really special however was the one server architecture (until China shard). My n…

I miss the insane adrenaline rush when getting into small fights (1v1, 1v2, etc.). You go so long doing doing whatever it is you're doing- PvE, hacking data sites, transporting stuff- it's all a bit mundane. But nothing raised my heart rate like getting into a fight. 30 seconds of terror. I would have to take a break after these, win or lose, until my HR returned to normal and my hands stopped shaking. I've never exp…

Same here. The thing that makes it so high stakes in EVE is you don't just respawn with all your stuff. It might have taken a couple weeks (or longer) for you to grind up the money for the ship you're using, and if the fight doesn't go well it's gone.
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