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I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

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Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#61

Post by [deleted] »

cassonmars wrote: post #13
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regional burns are a thing, and they're pretty awesome.

They can be, but unfortunately the org has threatened to revoke official regional burn status unless they followed all the same rules, in particular, that children be allowed. There used to be some leeway on that, and there were really wonderful regional burns that did not permit kids. They were forced to, which resulted in the "real" burn being in a small taped off area. Seems insane to me to think kids should be at…

[deleted]

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#62

Post by rightnutwingjob »

cromka wrote: post #60

I have attended festivals for more than half of my life and they're all suspectable to the same gentrification problem as cool neighborhoods: fun/artsy people create fun environments, fun environments attract others who genuinely appreciate fun/artsy but are professionals themselves, professionals attract other professionals but shallower with more money. Or, in short, they get hugged to death. Rinse, repeat. Same th…

Yep. These sorts of evens are better when they have a predetermined end date. Closing down sale, never to be repeated.

Then the organisers can regroup and start something new.

Rather than the inevitable alternative of morphing in to something unintended, undesired.

Better to reminisce about good old days rather than the decay.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#63

Post by vegenaise »

psunavy03 wrote: post #57
megagpt2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every anarchistic community ends up with rules to ensure things run smoothly. I think anarchism should be viewed as the movement towards less rules, not a movement that allows absolutely no rules. Allocating office desks so that everyone knows where their desk is is just common sense - if you're concerned about people envying the best desks, randomise it every week. You have to mark out roads if you want there to be…

The absurdity of anarchism is thus shown. It always ultimately ends up re-inventing government.

anarchism is no rulers, not no rules. "it always ends up..." please, i would love to hear all these examples you have. burning man isn't anarchism, btw. anarchism rejects all hierarchies, is typically horizontally organized, often ran by consensus though decision making varies by flavor, is inherently anticapitalist. there would be no profit and remuneration would be even across the board. you can see how burning man could never be called anarchist. but some examples for your consideration, ezln doesn't claim it but the way they organize themselves it's largely the same, rojava, cnt-fai/revolutionary spain.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#64

Post by cromka »

rightnutwingjob wrote: post #62
cromka wrote: post #60

I have attended festivals for more than half of my life and they're all suspectable to the same gentrification problem as cool neighborhoods: fun/artsy people create fun environments, fun environments attract others who genuinely appreciate fun/artsy but are professionals themselves, professionals attract other professionals but shallower with more money. Or, in short, they get hugged to death. Rinse, repeat. Same th…

Yep. These sorts of evens are better when they have a predetermined end date. Closing down sale, never to be repeated. Then the organisers can regroup and start something new. Rather than the inevitable alternative of morphing in to something unintended, undesired. Better to reminisce about good old days rather than the decay.

> unintended, undesired

Problem is, the more of them I've seen, the more I am convinced they are nowadays a premeditated long game: have cool people plant the seed, then sell it 10 years later. Same thing with LGBTQ communities attracted/coerced into certain neighborhoods.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#65

Post by dmkolobov »

chollida1 wrote: post #38

About 15 years ago it really started to get corporate. Big money came in and created camps with air conditioning, huge RV's no bartering, etc. Dustin Moskovitz and the like started going and wouldn't dare behave the ordinary peasants, by sleeping in tents, participating in the community, bartering for things. Heck Zuckerberg took a helicopter there one year. instead they just threw money at the event so they wouldn't…

I work at a financial company and around 2019, the break room had a magazine called “Meetings” with a front-page article about how burning man and sxsw are the next big thing in corporate culture.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#66

Post by sleepybrett »

megagpt2 wrote: post #31
brianshaler wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point GP was making was that the co-founder was basing their judgment secondhand from stories from friends and headlines. Another bit I found peculiar was the mentions of anarchism while seeming to have a rigid idea of what the event should or should not be. It's certainly far less anarchistic today—placements, permits, law enforcement—but it's not exactly anarchism to say it isn't allowed to evolve to fi…

Every anarchistic community ends up with rules to ensure things run smoothly. I think anarchism should be viewed as the movement towards less rules, not a movement that allows absolutely no rules. Allocating office desks so that everyone knows where their desk is is just common sense - if you're concerned about people envying the best desks, randomise it every week. You have to mark out roads if you want there to be…

everyone always insinuates the extreme, see currently the right and left trying to burn down the scary socialists.

Does america need more socialism to to help break the back of this oligarchic fascist state fuck yes. Do I want to live in pure socialism, no, no I do not. I will however hold positions further left than I think we are able to achieve simply to help move the overton window back to some fucking sanity.

We stake out these purely moral positions at the extreme poles because we want to move the concept of where the center actually is, we know we cannot achieve some kind of communist/socialist utopia, but you don't win by negotiating with yourself before you are at the table with the adversary.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#67

Post by sleepybrett »

johndhi wrote: post #46

I started going in 2002 and have friends who have gone every year since then. There has been a meme that burning man sucks now and used to be better that entire time. That doesn't mean the meme is false. It definitely has changed. There's an article in sfgate today that quotes the head of the Death Guild (Thunderdome) camp as saying something like, do people want to carry on the traditions their parents had, or inven…

i went 95-2000 then got cajoled back in 2012. It sucks now. It actually sucks now.

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#68

Post by sleepybrett »

Taniwha wrote: post #14
aappleby wrote: post #3

and he's been complaining ever since they stopped letting him shoot machine guns at teddy bears.

Blackrock used to be pretty wild-west (I was going before Burning Man started), pretty scary stuff at times (a friend once did something silly and hurt himself badly, Clinton was doing something in Reno, the SS heard about it, thought it was nearby and MiB showed up looking hot and bothered in their suits), over time the BLM realised that they needed to police the area a bit more and things got toned down (doesn't he…

Raise your hand if you remember 'drive-by camp'

Re: I co-founded Burning Man. The festival has lost its soul

#70

Post by ahartmetz »

cromka wrote: post #64
rightnutwingjob wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. These sorts of evens are better when they have a predetermined end date. Closing down sale, never to be repeated. Then the organisers can regroup and start something new. Rather than the inevitable alternative of morphing in to something unintended, undesired. Better to reminisce about good old days rather than the decay.

> unintended, undesired Problem is, the more of them I've seen, the more I am convinced they are nowadays a premeditated long game: have cool people plant the seed, then sell it 10 years later. Same thing with LGBTQ communities attracted/coerced into certain neighborhoods.

Not for the festivals that I know. They are either always profit-oriented or always not. There are or were (RIP Melt Festival) great ones of both types.
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