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The growing divide between AI hype and software engineering reality

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Re: The growing divide between AI hype and software engineering reality

#51
post #4
post #3

I think this post (and the OSS projects that he mentions that ban AI) are very reactionary. > But the idea that AI has or will surpass humans any time soon in either capabilities or efficiency is simply not true AI is already better than most developers. I'm not sure what alternative reality people are remembering, but human coders for the most part have been really awful at writing code. I think the average PR from…

that’s the thing, you can have the LLM study and make a skill to only code in the maintainers preferred style or readability.

Based on what I’ve read on HN, no you can’t because they inevitably revert to their bad RL’d habits as the context window grows.

Re: The growing divide between AI hype and software engineering reality

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly this is the impression true believers have had for at least a year. Nobody seems to have been left in the dust yet though. How odd.

Sure they have. Massive layoffs throughout the industry.

That wasn't necessarily caused by AI, in fact quite a lot of the layoffs came well before AI was useful. Most of the layoffs happened because companies over-hired during covid, and a lot of other economic issues causing people to spend less money, which causes top-heavy companies to lay off employees they hired when people had more money to spend.

Re: The growing divide between AI hype and software engineering reality

#53
post #33

I really want to agree but the arguments he brings up make that extremely hard > Also, it seems that many don’t want to learn but instead expect to have all understanding outsourced to LLMs. Many seniors have noticed this and have stopped teaching juniors as the seniors don’t like the feeling of having their time wasted by teaching people who don’t want to learn. Or may be it is because now a junior dev is expected t…

> Yes, but I still prefer a nice tone. Like why should I change my manners just because it has no feelings? If anything the statistic predicts a friendlier answer when I say "please".

Like you I generally prefer polite phrasings over rude ones, and I'm certainly not going to tell you how you should communicate to LLM models, however it's interesting to note that being somewhat rude and to the point seems to have some objective advantages, see for example:

Mind Your Tone: Investigating How Prompt Politeness Affects LLM Accuracy (short paper)

https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.04950

Understanding Tone-Dependent Inference Cost in Large Language Models

https://arxiv.org/abs/2607.23915

I would hate for this style of communication to leak through to daily communications with humans (e.g. colleagues) though, so even just for that it can make sense to hold on to a polite form of communication :-).

Re: The growing divide between AI hype and software engineering reality

#54
I'm confused by the situation. I'm the last manual coder of my company, and am shipping projects faster than my colleagues who are spending fortunes in tokens.

I was intrigued by the hype and gave a chance this week to codex+sol 5.6 and cc+opus 5. They cheated, lied, disobeyed, and shipped subtle bugs so often, it wasted more time that if I did it myself.

Is half of the industry under AI psychosis right now ? Will models get better ?

Re: The growing divide between AI hype and software engineering reality

#55
> It is widely accepted that there is an AI bubble in the financial markets at the moment

No its not. No one serious truly believes

1. AI is going away

2. its obvious that the total market cap of AI related stocks will go down more than 60-70%

Its obviously true that there are some related AI companies that will go bust as with any new technology. And its also true that the rise won't be monotonic.

What we instead get is perpetually pushed timelines for the bubbles and a religious belief that the end will come and people would pay for it.

To drive my point further, I ask for a single metric you would like to see that should be a certain way for you to believe it is not a bubble. Should the revenues have been 2x higher? Should the costs be 3x lower? Anything?

Re: The growing divide between AI hype and software engineering reality

#56
I wish developers could just walk out the door en masse tomorrow and let orgs replace them all with AI as has been touted for so long, then see what happens. It gets boring trying to explain that developers don’t just write code. “What do they do then?” I can almost hear a manager saying in a smug tone. If you have to ask, you’ll never knowww… ♬ ♬ ♬ ♬

Re: The growing divide between AI hype and software engineering reality

#57

On the "Stop saying please" part. I personally like to use polite language, as an exercise. According to this one paper on arxiv, toxic behavior gets better accuracy https://arxiv.org/pdf/2510.04950 It was published a while ago. But I wonder if it still holds true today.

I've heard it matters less now, but I also don't like being impolite to inanimate objects.

Re: The growing divide between AI hype and software engineering reality

#58
post #3

I think this post (and the OSS projects that he mentions that ban AI) are very reactionary. > But the idea that AI has or will surpass humans any time soon in either capabilities or efficiency is simply not true AI is already better than most developers. I'm not sure what alternative reality people are remembering, but human coders for the most part have been really awful at writing code. I think the average PR from…

I think one problem with this whole conversation is that “coding” is not one thing, and skill at it can mean many different things depending on the context.

In my experience, the top models still generate tons of useless slop on any non-trivial implementation request that I do not essentially solve in the prompt beforehand (change this class, this function, etc). They also still make trivial errors that no human would make (although the inverse is also true). In this sense, they do suck at coding.

On the other hand, even weaker models can understand large sections of code, come up with correct implementations of changes, and catch non-trivial edge cases in many situations that is obviously better than most devs. In this sense, they are better than almost all human devs, especially when considering the time and cost.

Perhaps in the long term AI will help us distinguish better between different types of coding tasks and programming disciplines

Re: The growing divide between AI hype and software engineering reality

#59
post #3

I think this post (and the OSS projects that he mentions that ban AI) are very reactionary. > But the idea that AI has or will surpass humans any time soon in either capabilities or efficiency is simply not true AI is already better than most developers. I'm not sure what alternative reality people are remembering, but human coders for the most part have been really awful at writing code. I think the average PR from…

The problem is that skill at coding is not exactly the same thing as skill at developing and maintaining software, and AI can help there as well, but a swarm of cowboy coder agents will get you to a legacy codebase very very quickly. And even if the AI is better than most humans, the speed means that you get more defects and issues! If a human developer has a change failure rate of say 10%, (1 in 10 changes causes a…

> the speed means that you get more defects and issues

You forget to account for the rate of error correction.

You can just choose how many bugs you want now:

https://nolanlawson.com/2026/08/16/you-can-just-choose-how-m...

Re: The growing divide between AI hype and software engineering reality

#60
post #3

I think this post (and the OSS projects that he mentions that ban AI) are very reactionary. > But the idea that AI has or will surpass humans any time soon in either capabilities or efficiency is simply not true AI is already better than most developers. I'm not sure what alternative reality people are remembering, but human coders for the most part have been really awful at writing code. I think the average PR from…

This is a very misguided idea.

Humans have value judgement. AI doesn't. AI doesn't "know" what good code even is. For something to be good, there has to be a purpose. Good is the measure of how well that purpose is fulfilled.

Humans can write better or worse code, but AI is not even in the category of things that can write better or worse code. A human needs to be there to tell bad code from good code.

* * *

Also, in my personal experience with AI code: I'm yet to see good code (but I haven't worked with people who are good at directing AI towards their goals). All code I've seen generated by AI so far ranged from "absolute garbage" to "passable". Which, most likely, reflects the ability of those who managed the tool: before they did that, their code was also atrocious. It was easier to deal with, because the velocity at which these people produced garbage didn't cause a deluge in the same way they do it with AI help.

* * *

A note on what I believe to be good code and its distribution. First of all, I agree with you on that the vast majority of code produced to date is very bad. There are many reasons for it: until few years ago the demand for programmers was smaller than supply and the industry was on course to create conditions for very bad programmers to succeed anyhow (help the losers lose less, tee-hee!). It still didn't recover from all the "paradigms" it created to support bad programmers.

Unlike in well-established fields, where you'd expect normal distribution in terms of how skillful the workers are (i.e. you'd expect very few to be very bad and very few to be very good, but most would be good enough), the distribution in programming is exponential: overwhelming majority are at the proverbial bottom of the barrel, only a few are OK, and you probably will never meet a truly good one. This defies intuition and leads us to assume that the barely palatable is the best it can possibly be. And that's, roughly, where AI is at at the moment.

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