Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 497 posts

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#411

Post by vidarh »

rgblambda wrote: post #277
vidarh wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vote was to leave or stay - there was no mandate for or against a specific relationship to the EU before even considering how drastically opinions have shifted since.

And there was considerable debate prior to the referendum within the Leave camp as to whether to go for a "soft Brexit" (close regulatory alignment) or "hard Brexit" (what the final deal ended up being).

Indeed parts of the leave movement explicitly used as an argument that a soft Brexit was possible, including explicitly airing the possibility of a Norway-style EEA membership. Given how close the result was, it's highly unlikely that there wouldn't have been greater support for a very soft option than for what we got.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#412

Post by inigyou »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #400
inigyou wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If countries relinquished sovereignty on borders then can you explain how they are now controlling their own borders again to stop migrants?

Well there are not. And they did relinquish sovereignty on borders: Schengen means you do not control your border and we've seen exactly that over the years. This is factual, not an opinion. Even just free movement is a big reduction of sovereign border control and certainly of immigration (in effect you no longer have control of that). We can discuss the pros and cons but not the facts.

Yes they are, they are checking IDs are borders again.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#413

Post by inigyou »

ViewTrick1002 wrote: post #403
inigyou wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, middlemen would happen if it's profitable to be a middleman. Extreme case: one person bids just enough to get all the rights, then charges double that to fishermen to use them.

Which means in the next bidding round the fishermen would bid somewhere between the double they were charged, and could still apparently have a working businesses with, and what the middleman bid. All it means is that they were expecting too large profit margins and someone called their bluff.

Has this been tried? It's been tried with housing (that's the current housing system).

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#414

Post by inigyou »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #402
inigyou wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that a lot of that stuff still exists when you have your own currency, but it gets absorbed into exchange rate movements instead of being an explicit decision. This is both a blessing because it automatically balances, and a curse because you can accidentally shift it in an unwanted way and it may be hard to notice you're doing so. For instance you can have a different interest rate when you have your own curren…

I agree that interests rates between trading partners have to somewhat match but the issue here within Europe is that Germany is so big that by default what they say goes. So, if you have Estonia that is in a slump and needs a boost, it can go to the ECB and say, look we need to lower the interest rates but if Germany is happy with the current rates, the likelihood that Estonia gets its way is basically nil. Right no…

Why can't Greece just default on its debt? When you can't paper over your insolvency with currency devaluation, you can still be insolvent but you have to deal with it in more overt ways.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#415

Post by mytailorisrich »

inigyou wrote: post #412
mytailorisrich wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there are not. And they did relinquish sovereignty on borders: Schengen means you do not control your border and we've seen exactly that over the years. This is factual, not an opinion. Even just free movement is a big reduction of sovereign border control and certainly of immigration (in effect you no longer have control of that). We can discuss the pros and cons but not the facts.

Yes they are, they are checking IDs are borders again.

Well, no they are not. And some very punctual, limited measures like Italy is doing right now for the show obviously does not mean they have control, as already said (and obvious).

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#417

Post by inigyou »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #415
inigyou wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they are, they are checking IDs are borders again.

Well, no they are not. And some very punctual, limited measures like Italy is doing right now for the show obviously does not mean they have control, as already said (and obvious).

Why don't you think they have control?

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#418

Post by 1718627440 »

mixdup wrote: post #159
Towaway69 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of a recent vote in the EU parlament where the No vote had to reach a certain value above 50% to carry the day. Even though the vote did end up with a No majority, it passed because the No vote didn't reach the required negativity! Now that's true democracy. If Icelanders don't want to join a democracy like that, negotiate until they do! After all, the politicians know what is best for the populace. […

As long as they hold a confirmatory referendum before actually joining, it wouldn't matter. Also, if Iceland is a democracy the citizens could simply vote for someone else next time who wouldn't keep trying if that's not what they wanted

Concessions, statements and revealed preference in a negotiation, certainly do matter, because they influence future leverage and power.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#419

Post by 1718627440 »

mixdup wrote: post #281
bordercontrol wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The joining process is already precisely defined.

Then what are the people voting to negotiate? They should just be presented with an in/out vote

The process is defined, not the final agreement.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#420

Post by 1718627440 »

mixdup wrote: post #98
thih9 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess one does not “just negotiate an agreement” for something like this. And perhaps two referendums and working incrementally is wise in general, given the mess that was Brexit.

But that is quite literally what they are going to do. They're asking the public if they should try to join the EU. If yes, they will negotiate an agreement with the EU. Once the government has agreed a path forward with the EU, they'll then have another vote and if yes they'll actually sign the agreement and join the EU, if no, it ends there and they don't join This first vote isn't committing the country or populat…

- Do you want to marry me?

* How will we handle X?

- Like Y.

* Sure, then, yes. I'm really looking forward to the wedding tomorrow.

- Nice, I never wanted to marry anyone in the first place.

???

Post reply on HN