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The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

stephendiehl.com

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Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#91

Post by kayo_20211030 »

I've seen this same discussion in a million guises.

This particular essay starts with

> I’m a kid of the 90s, and I still remember the early internet.

... and then contains a lot of predictable stuff about how and why avalon became: tarnished, effete, weak, tawdry, despoiled, no-fun, toxic, predatory, rapacious etc. You can take your pick, it doesn't matter. It's the same argument no matter which adjective you choose.

It finally gets to

> The question is not whether the internet contains useful things. It does.

That's a truism of no value.

Take the whole essay, replace "internet" with a country's name and amend some of the details. You've seen it before? You read it every damned day in every form of media. It's used to justify just about anything; the good and the bad. In the end it's a boring, repetitive argument.

At the edge, it reduces to: my country used to be great and now it's crap because it's not how it used to be - so, we need to roll everything back despite the number of years that have passed between then and now, and despite any of the positive things that may have come during that time.

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#92

Post by egonschiele »

I love Stephen's writing, and this is so well written.

> I was very wrong. The grift economy is massive. More disturbing still, it is participatory. A large and growing share of the population now appears willing to devote every waking hour to fleecing their fellow man as a career choice.

I find myself worrying about this a lot. For what it's worth though, the non-grifters, the people interested in building a community, are still out there. To find them, you need to look for groups that add no financial value – join an art club, volunteer locally. When I spend time with those groups, I'm reminded that not everyone's a grifter in real life.

Also, this explorable by Nicky Case is evergreen: https://ncase.me/trust/

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#93

Post by dilyevsky »

TFNA wrote: post #73
Biologist123 wrote: post #24

> People increasingly behave like addicts because addiction is the business model. I sense my internet addiction got a lot worse in recent years. I don’t use social media, but I consume news, blogs and newsletters - and comment threads - voraciously. I think the addiction began as soon as I started to work at a desk behind a computer which had internet access - 20+ years ago. Like putting an alcoholic to work behind…

Internet addiction in the early millennium wasn't so destructive, because so much internet content was somehow related to quality interaction with other people. You could meet cool new people (even occasionally IRL friends) from forums and blogs, and they were a hub for discussion for real-life communities like music-band fandom or travel subcultures. Besides the deleterious nature of engagement-maximizing social med…

Even 25 years ago being “too online” - back then it was icq, livejournal, and forums - was already destructive as hell and always led to some pretty cringe outcomes. At least these days some people make a career out of it, back then it was purely negative

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#94

Post by [deleted] »

kayo_20211030 wrote: post #91

I've seen this same discussion in a million guises. This particular essay starts with > I’m a kid of the 90s, and I still remember the early internet. ... and then contains a lot of predictable stuff about how and why avalon became: tarnished, effete, weak, tawdry, despoiled, no-fun, toxic, predatory, rapacious etc. You can take your pick, it doesn't matter. It's the same argument no matter which adjective you choose…

[deleted]

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#96

Post by [deleted] »

egonschiele wrote: post #92

I love Stephen's writing, and this is so well written. > I was very wrong. The grift economy is massive. More disturbing still, it is participatory. A large and growing share of the population now appears willing to devote every waking hour to fleecing their fellow man as a career choice. I find myself worrying about this a lot. For what it's worth though, the non-grifters, the people interested in building a communi…

[deleted]

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#97

Post by shostack »

TFNA wrote: post #87
karmakurtisaani wrote: post #47

After reddit prevented browsing old.reddit.com without signing in, I got a lot more active on lemmy. There's some amount of old internet feeling there, you don't get exhausted by the amount of material and it's not overrun by corporations. So far it's been nice.

What killed Reddit wasn't just its corporate chase for profit. It was also the fact that the general public's default internet device shifted to the smartphone and its limited keyboard and screen, no longer the computer. That led to comments largely being reduced to 140-character quips, no longer substantial discussion. I am skeptical any non-corporate replacement like Lemmy can bring the old internet feeling back, b…

It also was because it became a target to influence and manipulate people both by every day scammers and marketers as well as nation state level actors.

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#98

Post by Haga »

Biologist123 wrote: post #24

> People increasingly behave like addicts because addiction is the business model. I sense my internet addiction got a lot worse in recent years. I don’t use social media, but I consume news, blogs and newsletters - and comment threads - voraciously. I think the addiction began as soon as I started to work at a desk behind a computer which had internet access - 20+ years ago. Like putting an alcoholic to work behind…

Its because all of society moved interactions online, as the whole real space society got socially strangulated of discussions, arguments and anything meaningfull. If everything is a safe space- and democratic societies argueing and challenging of ideas is not "safe" - then the meaningfull interactions escape into the internet.

Re: The internet is kind of a predatory cesspit now

#99

Post by haunter »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #47

After reddit prevented browsing old.reddit.com without signing in, I got a lot more active on lemmy. There's some amount of old internet feeling there, you don't get exhausted by the amount of material and it's not overrun by corporations. So far it's been nice.

I follow reddit through RSS, at least that still works but probably that would be the final nail in the coffin for me. There are some really good subs out there and there is no replacements of those on the open internet. Maybe on Discord but I don't really like to use to that for anything else besides voice chat.
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