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Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

bbc.com

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Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#351

Post by bluegatty »

yeahforsureman wrote: post #315
bluegatty wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'roaming fees' :) That's my point: that's the most marginal thing imaginable, it's borderline tabloid populism - even though yes, admittedly over a lot of issues, it' beneficial obviously. The 'common market' is pretty valuable and it's what the focus should be. Literally nobody is against that - it's what everyone agrees on. As far as travel and roaming fees - you don't need a centralized government for any of that.…

The mismatch between the existing monetary union and the lack of fiscal integration (ie, not even any imaginary authoritarian eurofederalism) indeed is the economic macro issue above everything else, and remains a major unsolved tension even after the acute years of the Eurocrisis. Basically, if you take it as described, we're in a highly suboptimal state with two radically different directions to go to try to fix it…

Yes, this is it. And add to that the ugly pull of naive pro-EU populists (who are deceiving because they're generally a nice lot) and the other populists, borderline nazis who will burn a lot of things down.

And monetary union etc. is a very difficult concept to describe to regular people.

It's rational that people are attached to the 'concept of Europe' and worry about it being taken away from them, even though 'The EU is not Europe'.

One solution: a 'Periphery EU' status for UK, Norway, Switzerland - but ALSO - Morocco, Algeria, Turkey, Armenia, Georgia etc..

'EU light' could give the option for other states like Greece to downgrade into, maybe something could come out of that.

A more open Europe that somehow got over the 'immigration' problem could really integrate these huge new middle eastern areas, and maybe even a couple of African States.

It could be the biggest economy in the world.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#352

Post by therealdrag0 »

rozab wrote: post #317
bluGill wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't need to join the EU to use the euro. There are countries that use the U.S. dollar even though they're not the U.S. Sometimes it's just de facto use the dollar. There is technically a local currency and people use it when forced to but they would prefer the dollar. If you're a small country, something like the dollar or the euro is probably your best bet because of the stability it affords. The advantage to…

This means giving up all the advantages of central banking and is generally only done informally by countries experiencing hyperinflation without capital controls. It's a marker of a failed state. I remember in live TV debates for the 2014 Scottish independence referendum, the Yes leader insisted that Scotland could not be prevented from using the Pound sterling. It's technically true, but a very, very bad idea.

Wouldn’t joining EU give up central banking in the same way?

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#353

Post by johannes1234321 »

stavros wrote: post #64
ekidd wrote: post #7

> The No campaign fears losing control over Iceland's prized fishing grounds under the EU's Common Fisheries Policy and has vowed never to share the country's waters with anyone. Brussels has indicated Iceland could earn some kind of exemption, but it is considered potentially the biggest obstacle to any agreement. As noted in the article, Iceland's fishing industry makes up something like 40% of their exports. Which…

Why would we (as an EU member) want Iceland to compromise on such a vital issue, though? I understand that it's simpler to have common regulations among all members, but when theirs works, why mess with it? It sounds unreasonable.

The goal of the EU is to form a single economic area. Irish an I elandic fishers should be under same rules when fishing the same waters.

EU often is a mechanism to find a compromise (which makes the regulations so convoluted and bureaucratic ...), but too many special clauses to make a country happy means you got a similar debate on next subject.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#354

Post by troupo »

kuboble wrote: post #46
troupo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway and Switzerland are in the EU in all but final signatures ar this point: they are fully ibtegrated into EU economy, apply EU's laws and regulations and even pay into EU funds.

Speaking of Switzerland - no it absolutely is not. Is far from being fully integrated into EU. You have to pay customs on shipments, which can be delayed for weeks on borders. You need to apply for the residence permit and you can lose it for trivially sounding reasons. - E.g. lying on the application which could mean " you mentioned in the application you wull look for job but lied and went to learn the language ins…

> You have to pay customs on shipments, which can be delayed for weeks on borders.

See here: https://www.efta-studies.org/sectoral-access-to-the-single-m...

> You need to apply for the residence permit and you can lose it for trivially sounding reasons. - E.g. lying on the application

"Trivially sounding reasons".... lying on the application.

Lol.

----

Yes, I hyperbolized a little in my comment. But I'm tired of people oretending that Norway and Switzerland are somehow completely separate from the EU.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#355

Post by inigyou »

therealdrag0 wrote: post #352
rozab wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This means giving up all the advantages of central banking and is generally only done informally by countries experiencing hyperinflation without capital controls. It's a marker of a failed state. I remember in live TV debates for the 2014 Scottish independence referendum, the Yes leader insisted that Scotland could not be prevented from using the Pound sterling. It's technically true, but a very, very bad idea.

Wouldn’t joining EU give up central banking in the same way?

It would, and this has been an issue even with bigger eurozone countries, like Greece.

Basically the same pressure that would have adjusted your exchange rates instead adjusts how much of the fixed-rate currency exists in your country. With fluctuating rates the pain of a financial outflow is more evenly spread than with a government running out of money, unless the government adjusts taxes to compensate.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#356

Post by squidbeak »

ghusto wrote: post #307
northernsausage wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mood is very much for re-joining in the UK.BREXIT was supposed to be the first domino that killed the EU but it very much didn't work because the average European likes a lot of what the EU has done for them. There are critiques sure but its not a dead system.

Depends who you talk to. I have a mixed bag of UK friends, and it's about half-half. One thing I think myself is that there was an ugly _hope_ that the UK would suffer as a result. A hope which, as far as I can see, wasn't realised. Living in Europe, I saw a lot on the news about how the UK had shot itself in the foot and things were going badly, but when I visit friends, not so much.

> I have a mixed bag of UK friends, and it's about half-half.

Polls show the population regrets Brexit. [1]

> One thing I think myself is that there was an ugly _hope_ that the UK would suffer as a result. A hope which, as far as I can see, wasn't realised. Living in Europe, I saw a lot on the news about how the UK had shot itself in the foot and things were going badly, but when I visit friends, not so much.

The UK took a big hit to GDP as a result of Brexit [2], it drastically raised export costs [3] and ordinary people have faced steeper household bills ever since. [4] Meanwhile it led to increased immigration [5] with consequent social tensions.

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-po...

[2] https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/how-brexit-is-estimated-hav...

[3] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-exp...

[4] https://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/cp628.pdf

[5] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2025/7729...

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#357

Post by inigyou »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #318
Beretta_Vexee wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the factors leading them to reconsider EU membership is monetary policy. The Icelandic króna is a very small currency that fluctuates considerably. Switching to the euro would protect them from exchange rate risks with their main trading partner. One solution for Iceland would be to join the eurozone without becoming a member of the EU, as Kosovo and Montenegro have done. However, this would only be desirable…

Joining the Euro is not the panacea that everyone thinks it is. It comes with some major drawbacks: - no control of interest rates since these apply to everyone in the Eurozone regardless of the current economic situation of a particular country. - no more devaluation to get back some competitiveness on international markets - strict financial guidelines in theory (3% deficit max per year and 60% of GDP/debt ratio) F…

Note that a lot of that stuff still exists when you have your own currency, but it gets absorbed into exchange rate movements instead of being an explicit decision. This is both a blessing because it automatically balances, and a curse because you can accidentally shift it in an unwanted way and it may be hard to notice you're doing so.

For instance you can have a different interest rate when you have your own currency, however it will cause your currency value to shift over time in opposition to the interest rate difference. For instance I think New Zealand had 6%ish rates while the mainstream was 3%ish, as a result the NZ dollar devalued by 3%ish per year. If they wanted a stable currency value, they would've had to maintain interest rates comparable to their trading partners. The fact this isn't happening to Japan is a great mystery to economists because it normally does happen.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#358

Post by inigyou »

gizajob wrote: post #157
MrDresden wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Iceland's fishing industry makes up something like 40% of their export." That number includes everything involving the fishing industry, such as equipment manufacturing. The size of the actual fishing and value-addative processing is often reported to be closer to 12-15% as a share of GDP. I say this as an Icelander who voted yes in this vote, but would vote no next time if any deal would lead to us loosing contro…

If you join the EU you will lose control of your fisheries and have worse management policies pushed on you. Fantasy to think it will be any other way.

EU member states can just ignore EU laws, as Hungary did for a decade. The EU is not sovereign.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#359

Post by inigyou »

ViewTrick1002 wrote: post #290
runarberg wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Icelandic ex-fisherman here: Iceland‘s fisheries are controlled by what we call quota-kings. They are extremely rich owners of fishing quota (similar to USA’s oil barons) who are increasingly anti-social and obviously very unpopular among Iceland’s general public. Iceland’s fishing system is kind of feudal in nature. People are allowed buy and trade and even rent fishing quotas. This means that the quota has accumula…

Shared usage of a limited resource is a hard problem to solve. Given the current system maybe the most honest one would be if the state ”owns” all the quota and then let fishermen bid for fishing rights. But I have a feeling that will quickly become politicized with strange carve outs benefiting a few.

Bidding for rights is basically an ownership system already. Once you win a bid for a right, then you own the right.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#360

Post by inigyou »

p-e-w wrote: post #222
amunozo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the EU should make an exception, which also could draw Norway closer.

No high-income country has shown serious interest in joining the EU in decades. Norway is a hyper-privileged nation that already has several relevant treaties with the EU and has very little to gain by submitting to a system where the Balkan gets to vote on the measures Norway must implement.

are there any more high-income countries in the European geographic area that haven't already joined?
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