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Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

bbc.com

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Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#201

Post by jonkoops »

andrepd wrote: post #170
hectormalot wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask why you have this sentiment? I think the Euro has been a great achievement. It seems quite stable compared to its predecessor currencies and it’s convenient for trade across the union.

Countries have wildly different needs regarding monetary policy. Those interests are sometimes in conflict. When push comes to shove, unsurprisingly the powerful dictate the rules: see the 2010s Eurozone crises.

They all want a stable currency, though, and the Euro is certainly that. To the point that even non-EU states have started to adopt it over their own.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#202

Post by broken-kebab »

Supermancho wrote: post #191
broken-kebab wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like I'm right. I don't read in German regretfully, but what I get with machine translation fully supports my point - national discretion allows for civilian or humanitarian aid rather than an automatic military response

Moving the goalpost out to "automatic military response" is not compelling.

I literally started the discussion from the point that "the mutual assistance clause doesn't oblige member states to support each other with military force" - quoting from the comment just 2 levels above.

So which goalpost is being moved here?

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#203

Post by seydor »

saevarom wrote: post #181

I run the count at one of the constituencies. We have about 42.000 people on the electoral register and we'll probably see about 75-80% turnout, so we're going to be counting about 33.000 votes with about 30-35 people on staff, 24 of them doing the actual counting. For the interest of the HN crowd, here is the technical report: You'll find that the Icelandic voting system is very low tech. The electoral registry for…

Low tech enables multiple interested parties to physically oversee the electoral process. That is a good thing.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#204

Post by eloisant »

zyuiop wrote: post #103
exceptione wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, these countries implement already a lot of EU law. It isn't that difficult for say a Switzerland to join the EU and they have good reasons to, as access to programs like Horizon is a huge benefit. The economies of these countries are quite interwoven with the second largest economy of the world. The EU market comes with rules but is is a very big win for neighboring countries. In fact, Switzerland backtr…

Switzerland is currently in the process of implementing a third wave of bilateral agreements with the EU, and the federal government has indicated that in their opinion the "bilateral way" is the best of both worlds in terms of sovereignty and integration, so I don't think joining the EU will be on the agenda anytime soon

You can see it as "the best of both world", or you can see it as having to follow EU rules without having a say in those rules because no EMP.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#205

Post by eloisius »

Beretta_Vexee wrote: post #123
Doohickey-d wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, Kosovo and Montenegro adopted the Euro unilaterally, without agreement from the EU. I don't think that'd be (politically) possible for Iceland (?). So the EU would need to agree to this, which also doesn't seem politically possible (?)

There are a whole host of microstates and more or less autonomous overseas territories that use the euro. If Mayotte can use the euro even though the island is on the brink of collapse, I don’t see why that would be a problem for Iceland. I don’t think this is a problem for the EU – quite the opposite, in fact. It strengthens the euro’s position in international trade, increases the number of users and boosts the vol…

There’s also Ecuador who officially uses the USD as their currency.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#206

Post by runarberg »

gizajob wrote: post #157
MrDresden wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Iceland's fishing industry makes up something like 40% of their export." That number includes everything involving the fishing industry, such as equipment manufacturing. The size of the actual fishing and value-addative processing is often reported to be closer to 12-15% as a share of GDP. I say this as an Icelander who voted yes in this vote, but would vote no next time if any deal would lead to us loosing contro…

If you join the EU you will lose control of your fisheries and have worse management policies pushed on you. Fantasy to think it will be any other way.

Icelandic ex-fisherman here:

Iceland‘s fisheries are controlled by what we call quota-kings. They are extremely rich owners of fishing quota (similar to USA’s oil barons) who are increasingly anti-social and obviously very unpopular among Iceland’s general public.

Iceland’s fishing system is kind of feudal in nature. People are allowed buy and trade and even rent fishing quotas. This means that the quota has accumulated into fewer and fewer hands of extremely rich individuals. The quota is then trickled down to fishing companies, and finally to fisherman, who have to spend a lot of money to rent the quota before they are allowed to fish.

This is a terrible system, and obviously the EU loves it (it even tried to copy it to solve the climate-crisis; and failed obviously). It fits smack into EUs neo-liberal trajectory. I don‘t think it is a fantasy at all the EU would adopt Iceland’s management policy at all. Nor do I think Iceland’s workers (including fishermen) have anything to worry about inside the EU. Trading ownership from our own feudal overlords to European bureaucrats would be a net positive in my books, however unlikely I find it.

That said I think it is unlikely Iceland will join anyway. Even if ‘yes’ wins. Iceland’s politicians have a history of ignoring the results of a national referendum if they don‘t like the results. They did this back in 2012 when the nation voted in favor of a new constitution (which relevantly would have actually transferred ownership of the fisheries to the Icelandic nation). A new government came to power and simply decided to ignore the results because their loved quota-kings would have lost power. I think something similar is likely to happen again.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#207

Post by jayGlow »

andrepd wrote: post #160
xyzelement wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A maneauvor whereupon a foreign power allows as many people into a small enclave as already live there (literally 60k into a territory of 80k) cannot be called anything other than "invasion". When did Mexico conspire to help 60k people breach into Texas? Let me know and we can have that conversation, maybe I missed it. As a side-note it was the "dangerous communist leftist" Sanchez which swiftly took control of the s…

there are several hundred thousand illegal crossings in Texas every year. the government might not be involved but there certainly are organizations involved in this.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#208

Post by ethersteeds »

andrepd wrote: post #142
bluebarbet wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the 2010 debt crisis there was much talk of profligate Greece being "thrown out" of the euro zone. In this dark scenario Greek civil servants would get their pay rises in worthless drachma, but Greek homeowners would be left with unpayable euro mortgages. But nobody ever talked about the Montenegro option (similar to Ecuador and USD). I never understood this. What was stopping Greece from defaulting and keepin…

> profligate Greece being "thrown out" of the euro zone. In this dark scenario Greek civil servants would get their pay rises in worthless drachma, but Greek homeowners would be left with unpayable euro mortgages That was indeed the "mainstream media" (I so hate that expression but it does apply) opinion. The reality is more prosaic: German (and French, but mostly German) banks would be screwed if those debts were de…

It's supposed to go up, huh? It's back where it started, so there's that...

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?location...

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#209

Post by saevarom »

seydor wrote: post #203
saevarom wrote: post #181

I run the count at one of the constituencies. We have about 42.000 people on the electoral register and we'll probably see about 75-80% turnout, so we're going to be counting about 33.000 votes with about 30-35 people on staff, 24 of them doing the actual counting. For the interest of the HN crowd, here is the technical report: You'll find that the Icelandic voting system is very low tech. The electoral registry for…

Low tech enables multiple interested parties to physically oversee the electoral process. That is a good thing.

I agree. It is very transparent.

Re: Iceland votes on whether to restart talks on joining EU

#210

Post by SyneRyder »

glimshe wrote: post #22
ekidd wrote: post #7

> The No campaign fears losing control over Iceland's prized fishing grounds under the EU's Common Fisheries Policy and has vowed never to share the country's waters with anyone. Brussels has indicated Iceland could earn some kind of exemption, but it is considered potentially the biggest obstacle to any agreement. As noted in the article, Iceland's fishing industry makes up something like 40% of their exports. Which…

They export good music too (Bjork and Sigur Ros)!

Gus Gus too.

And some of us still remember Greta & Jónsi, even out here in Australia.

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