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Pirate Bay Trial Day 8: Pirates Kill the Music Biz

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Re: Pirate Bay Trial Day 8: Pirates Kill the Music Biz

#11

Post by omouse »

jacoblyles wrote: post #8
FalconNL wrote: post #5

"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence." I must say it's getting really hard to tell the difference in this case. "less is being paid for than ever before." Really? The second the first recording company came into business it was making 18 billion a year? I'm fairly sure it's still higher than throughout most of the history of the recording industry. "Unfortunately The Pirate Bay does w…

>""Kennedy said that the reduction in sales in the music industry is directly attributable to illegal downloading." Again, PROVE IT." Of course, it is impossible to "prove". But there is a strong correlation between the rise of downloading and the collapse of sales in the music industry. It would be sloppy reasoning to dismiss any causal relationship between the two a priori.

Sure, we can admit that correlation but can you improve that it's only illegal downloads? But what about iTunes, Amazon, etc. and their DRM-free software? Don't those encourage supposedly illegal sharing?

Re: Pirate Bay Trial Day 8: Pirates Kill the Music Biz

#12

Post by Xichekolas »

omouse wrote: post #11
jacoblyles wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>""Kennedy said that the reduction in sales in the music industry is directly attributable to illegal downloading." Again, PROVE IT." Of course, it is impossible to "prove". But there is a strong correlation between the rise of downloading and the collapse of sales in the music industry. It would be sloppy reasoning to dismiss any causal relationship between the two a priori.

Sure, we can admit that correlation but can you improve that it's only illegal downloads? But what about iTunes, Amazon, etc. and their DRM-free software? Don't those encourage supposedly illegal sharing?

Supposedly they started including legal downloads in their tallies around the time iTunes rose up to prominence, and the trend is still downward.

I have often wondered if people buy less music because they can try it first and realize it's not worth buying. I can't count the number of times I have been excited about a new album, downloaded it when it leaks online, and realized it sucks. Before, I would have been excited, bought the album when it came out, realized it sucked, and regretted my purchase. Now I can save myself the money.

Of course, the reason could be as simple as attention spans. People only have so much time to be entertained (at most 24 hours a day)... and there seem to be more movies, tv shows, songs, video games, websites, etc than ever. If people are spending more time watching movies and playing games, they are probably spending less time listening to music... and hence less money buying new music to fill that time.

Re: Pirate Bay Trial Day 8: Pirates Kill the Music Biz

#13

Post by joeyo »

anatoli wrote: post #7

I find a couple of things ridiculous about this whole thing. 1) The music industry refused to acknowledge the impact of iTMS instead pretending as if CD sales are the only thing making them money. I might be wrong, but isn't iTMS the number 1 seller now... ? 2) I have a deep, very deep problem with commenters who say stuff like "piracy for life" or "I'll keep pirating till I die". They're just confirming the views of…

  2) I have a deep, very deep problem with commenters who
  say stuff like "piracy for life" or "I'll keep pirating
  till I die". They're just confirming the views of the
  music labels.
I do agree to an extent that statements such as these may in some sense undermine The Pirate Bay's case. However, an argument could certainly be made that in the era of essentially free copying (i.e. almost no marginal cost) society is better served by a regime without copyright. I cannot look inside the commenter's head to see if he is making his statements on this basis, or simply likes to receive free digital information-- but in the limit it ends up being the same: such statements are ultimately an expression of the need for some type of copyright reform so that the laws can be more aligned to how people on the whole actually behave.

Re: Pirate Bay Trial Day 8: Pirates Kill the Music Biz

#14

Post by FalconNL »

jacoblyles wrote: post #8
FalconNL wrote: post #5

"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence." I must say it's getting really hard to tell the difference in this case. "less is being paid for than ever before." Really? The second the first recording company came into business it was making 18 billion a year? I'm fairly sure it's still higher than throughout most of the history of the recording industry. "Unfortunately The Pirate Bay does w…

>""Kennedy said that the reduction in sales in the music industry is directly attributable to illegal downloading." Again, PROVE IT." Of course, it is impossible to "prove". But there is a strong correlation between the rise of downloading and the collapse of sales in the music industry. It would be sloppy reasoning to dismiss any causal relationship between the two a priori.

There is also a strong correlation between global warming and the amount of pirates (http://www.seanbonner.com/blog/archives/001857.php). While I agree that dismissing it a priori is a bad idea, correlation still does not mean causation. Hence the request for proof instead of conjecture. If you're going to take someone to court you had better be able to prove your accusations.

Re: Pirate Bay Trial Day 8: Pirates Kill the Music Biz

#15

Post by jacoblyles »

FalconNL wrote: post #14
jacoblyles wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>""Kennedy said that the reduction in sales in the music industry is directly attributable to illegal downloading." Again, PROVE IT." Of course, it is impossible to "prove". But there is a strong correlation between the rise of downloading and the collapse of sales in the music industry. It would be sloppy reasoning to dismiss any causal relationship between the two a priori.

There is also a strong correlation between global warming and the amount of pirates ( http://www.seanbonner.com/blog/archives/001857.php ). While I agree that dismissing it a priori is a bad idea, correlation still does not mean causation. Hence the request for proof instead of conjecture. If you're going to take someone to court you had better be able to prove your accusations.

There is a very plausible line of causation in the downloads => music sales hypothesis that does not exist in the pirates => global warming hypothesis.

Please be courteous and refrain from using obvious straw men in your arguments. It makes the person you are responding to feel like you are not taking them seriously.

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