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Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

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Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#41

Post by dr_dshiv »

krzs9 wrote: post #6
alephnerd wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly would love to deep dive into Sumerian literature. Sadly much of it is still untranslated or in the annals of UChicago.

I can certainly recommend : 1. The Literature of Ancient Sumer - Jeremy Black. It is a quite substantial anthology, has myths, hymns, laments, royal praise poetry, proverbs, literary debates, etc. 2. Myths from Mesopotamia - Stephanie Dalley. I bought this for Gilgamesh, loved the rest of it too. One of my most treasured books. 3. Weavers, Scribes, and Kings - Amanda Podany. Not Sumerian literature, but my favorite c…

You can also find a lot here: https://sourcelibrary.org/collections/sumerian-mesopotamian

Feedback welcome

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#42

Post by pestatije »

poulpy123 wrote: post #30

The idea that a list of kings from 4000 years ago would encodé global climate events for over 240.000 years is completely ludicrous. Astrology has a better grounding on reality than this idea. And the fact that all lengths are multiple of 600, is even more telling knowing that they counted in base 60

current kings live very long lives due to the stability in their environment... not what used to happen in the middle ages for instance

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#43

Post by dented42 »

poulpy123 wrote: post #30

The idea that a list of kings from 4000 years ago would encodé global climate events for over 240.000 years is completely ludicrous. Astrology has a better grounding on reality than this idea. And the fact that all lengths are multiple of 600, is even more telling knowing that they counted in base 60

Who cares if it’s ludicrous? It’s a fun idea!

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#44

Post by dismalaf »

stodor89 wrote: post #27
dismalaf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP but there's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin%C4%8Da_symbols Some people also interpret some symbols on mammoth tusks going back 50k years as writing but that's a stretch IMO.

Interpreting Vinca symbols as a full-blown writing system is also widely considered a stretch.

Are you talking alphabet or just writing system?

It's clear by the number of symbols it's a writing system of sorts (proto-writing). It could definitely be pictograms (probably IMO), but then again, cuneiform, hieroglyphics and Chinese writing all started as pictograms as well.

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#45

Post by nlehuen »

poulpy123 wrote: post #30

The idea that a list of kings from 4000 years ago would encodé global climate events for over 240.000 years is completely ludicrous. Astrology has a better grounding on reality than this idea. And the fact that all lengths are multiple of 600, is even more telling knowing that they counted in base 60

While they were at it they should have explored whether those kings were actually the cause of those global climate events. You never know, with enough slicing, dicing and p-hacking you can get interesting conclusions :)

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#46

Post by Laurel1234 »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #39
poulpy123 wrote: post #30

The idea that a list of kings from 4000 years ago would encodé global climate events for over 240.000 years is completely ludicrous. Astrology has a better grounding on reality than this idea. And the fact that all lengths are multiple of 600, is even more telling knowing that they counted in base 60

> And the fact that all lengths are multiple of 600 I know this must somehow explain the giant numbers but I'm still not sure how precisely. Counting in base 60 would make for much smaller numbers, no ? For example, the number 16 in base 2 is 1111. but in base 10 it is 16. Ergo smaller base, larger number, and vice versa. So did you mean to say they counted in units that are made of 1/600 of our solar years? I think…

[dead]

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#47

Post by yorwba »

jcranmer wrote: post #28
mapontosevenths wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they just transposed a few digits? It happens. Somebody should try swapping them in and see if the pattern fits better.

The Sumerians used a sexagesimal notation system; the two lengths would be 5.10.0 and 5.50.0 (which together add up to 11.0.0, FWIW), while all of the other king lengths are 8.0.0, 10.0.0, or 12.0.0.

The Weld-Blundell Prism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weld-Blundell_Prism doesn't use positional notation, so 5.50.0 is expressed as 𒐧𒐢 (five 3600, five 600) and 5.10.0 is expressed as 𒐧𒐞 (five 3600, one 600). (Lines 27-35, each number appearing twice separated by a line with 𒁹𒈗 (one king), if you want to follow along.)

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#48

Post by [deleted] »

jfengel wrote: post #17
SurviveTheJive wrote: post #15

You can’t discuss kings without discussing the rich history of Europe with thousands of years of oral and written history long predating the Sumerians and even the ancient Proto Indo-European peoples to which European language and culture is often erroneously attributed. The dark ages were anything but dark. Ancient Europe was anything but primitive. And yet it’s so rarely discussed in the mainstream.

The "dark ages" were also thousands of years after the Sumerians. Even the Greek Dark Age postdates Sumer by a millennium. So you're not really filling me with confidence about your idea here. Perhaps you can provide some sort of evidence?

[deleted]

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#49

Post by [deleted] »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #16
SurviveTheJive wrote: post #15

You can’t discuss kings without discussing the rich history of Europe with thousands of years of oral and written history long predating the Sumerians and even the ancient Proto Indo-European peoples to which European language and culture is often erroneously attributed. The dark ages were anything but dark. Ancient Europe was anything but primitive. And yet it’s so rarely discussed in the mainstream.

Can you give us a few pointers or links?

[deleted]
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