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Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

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Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#31

Post by mapontosevenths »

jcranmer wrote: post #28
mapontosevenths wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they just transposed a few digits? It happens. Somebody should try swapping them in and see if the pattern fits better.

The Sumerians used a sexagesimal notation system; the two lengths would be 5.10.0 and 5.50.0 (which together add up to 11.0.0, FWIW), while all of the other king lengths are 8.0.0, 10.0.0, or 12.0.0.

Yeah. I had Fable run through every version of it I could think of and it explained the numbering system was the root of everything being divisible by 60.

I did find a pattern though. If you look at ALL the kings, rather than just those 8 it becomes obvious. The recent numbers are realistic and drift further apart, becoming less and less accurate, the further back you go.

Interestingly it also compared some other clay tablets and they were close. So it seems that they were probably written down based on a verbal history that had already drifted wildly well before it was written down .

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#33

Post by card_zero »

quickthrowman wrote: post #9

I wonder why the Sumerians deviated on the last two lengths from the rule they had on the first six. The first six reign lengths (and the total sum of all eight reign lengths) are all n * 60 * 60 , where n is an integer. The last two are not, but they could’ve been. If instead you use 18000 years and 21600 years instead of 18600 and 21000, they fit the same formula as the other numbers and the sum remains the same. T…

The next 28 kings after the flood all have unfeasibly long reigns too. Then there's some believable ones, but even much later on there's Hadanish (360 years, 6*60) and Lugal-kinishe-dudu (120 years, 2*60).

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#34

Post by defrost »

card_zero wrote: post #33
quickthrowman wrote: post #9

I wonder why the Sumerians deviated on the last two lengths from the rule they had on the first six. The first six reign lengths (and the total sum of all eight reign lengths) are all n * 60 * 60 , where n is an integer. The last two are not, but they could’ve been. If instead you use 18000 years and 21600 years instead of 18600 and 21000, they fit the same formula as the other numbers and the sum remains the same. T…

The next 28 kings after the flood all have unfeasibly long reigns too. Then there's some believable ones, but even much later on there's Hadanish (360 years, 6*60) and Lugal-kinishe-dudu (120 years, 2*60).

There's a lot to 'guess' with very old text with uncertain translation and no longer spoken or written original forms.

Are these individual human kings, or dynastic reigns, such as the Tudors, Windsors, etc.

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#35

Post by card_zero »

jcranmer wrote: post #28
mapontosevenths wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they just transposed a few digits? It happens. Somebody should try swapping them in and see if the pattern fits better.

The Sumerians used a sexagesimal notation system; the two lengths would be 5.10.0 and 5.50.0 (which together add up to 11.0.0, FWIW), while all of the other king lengths are 8.0.0, 10.0.0, or 12.0.0.

Positional notation with no zero is awkward.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexagesimal#Babylonian_mathema...

"For example, the symbols for 1 and 60 are identical."

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#36

Post by card_zero »

defrost wrote: post #34
card_zero wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next 28 kings after the flood all have unfeasibly long reigns too. Then there's some believable ones, but even much later on there's Hadanish (360 years, 6*60) and Lugal-kinishe-dudu (120 years, 2*60).

There's a lot to 'guess' with very old text with uncertain translation and no longer spoken or written original forms. Are these individual human kings, or dynastic reigns, such as the Tudors, Windsors, etc.

They seem to be accompanied by commentary like "son of" or "the fisherman", or nicknames that apply to individuals. Dumuzid "the shepherd", 36,000 years. Kug-Bau, "the woman tavern-keeper, who made firm the foundations of Kish" reigned for 100 years, which is just possible but pretty good going. You have to wonder at what point in her ~120 year life she did her tavern-keeping. Perhaps while ruling?

So, OK, maybe it really means "Kug-Bau, the woman tavern-keeper, and her descendents, not mentioned here".

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#37

Post by vasco »

magneticnorth wrote: post #10
animan wrote: post #7

This was fun to read! I wish there was a no tech version of hackers news for this type of content only

> I wish there was a no tech version of hackers news for this type of content only I used to think the same thing, but I've come to appreciate exposure to highly-technical content (outside my wheelhouse) that also "gratifies ones intellectual curiosity." I don't necessarily deeply care about the merits of GUIs and TUIs, but once it's pointed out, I can see the importance of being keyboard driven ( https://news.ycombi…

> discussed by intellectuals in the tech space

Not to burst your bubble but registrations are open to the public here on HN.

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#38

Post by mdp2021 »

animan wrote: post #7

This was fun to read! I wish there was a no tech version of hackers news for this type of content only

> fun ... a no tech version

Which means, surely, "no tech" and "no current impactful world". You would lose that sight from a community largely trained on hard facts ("works/doesnotwork") and creation, invention, management, on real grounds.

"Intellectual curiosity" as a "bubble", as an escape into a closed reality, is not a good thing. "Oh, the colours of nature in its taxologies!". And meanwhile maybe the world that is allowing you that intellectual growth is eroded.

Just skim through the submissions and pick your thing, obviously.

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#39

Post by jdthedisciple »

poulpy123 wrote: post #30

The idea that a list of kings from 4000 years ago would encodé global climate events for over 240.000 years is completely ludicrous. Astrology has a better grounding on reality than this idea. And the fact that all lengths are multiple of 600, is even more telling knowing that they counted in base 60

> And the fact that all lengths are multiple of 600

I know this must somehow explain the giant numbers but I'm still not sure how precisely.

Counting in base 60 would make for much smaller numbers, no ?

For example, the number 16 in base 2 is 1111. but in base 10 it is 16. Ergo smaller base, larger number, and vice versa.

So did you mean to say they counted in units that are made of 1/600 of our solar years? I think that would make more sense, putting their reigns between 31-72 years of our counting.

Re: Does the Sumerian King List Align with Paleoclimate Events?

#40

Post by MachineMan »

poulpy123 wrote: post #30

The idea that a list of kings from 4000 years ago would encodé global climate events for over 240.000 years is completely ludicrous. Astrology has a better grounding on reality than this idea. And the fact that all lengths are multiple of 600, is even more telling knowing that they counted in base 60

Reality is stranger than fiction.
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