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Verschlimmbesserung: The Word Your Software Updates Need

geekyschmidt.com

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Re: Verschlimmbesserung: The Word Your Software Updates Need

#51
post #3

I'd say enshitification is a good enough word. Verschlimmbesserung is not widely used these days in Germany.

The word is needed a lot today, the English version however not always applicable in more formal contexts.

I'd like to use "Schlimmprovement" for elevated communication.

Re: Verschlimmbesserung: The Word Your Software Updates Need

#52
post #36

German here. A "Verschlimmbesserung" is something that makes one part better and another part worse. If it only makes things worse you don't need a German word for it, you can just call it worse. For things that were intended good, but ended up bad, there's an English idiom: the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

Not a German but Duden disagrees with you [0]: "etwas in der Absicht, es zu verbessern, schlechter machen".

[0]: https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/verschlimmbessern

Re: Verschlimmbesserung: The Word Your Software Updates Need

#53
post #36

German here. A "Verschlimmbesserung" is something that makes one part better and another part worse. If it only makes things worse you don't need a German word for it, you can just call it worse. For things that were intended good, but ended up bad, there's an English idiom: the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

Both my memory (as a German) and Duden disagree with you.

> etwas in der Absicht, es zu verbessern, schlechter machen > > https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/verschlimmbessern

"Making somewhere worse with the intention to make it better".

Re: Verschlimmbesserung: The Word Your Software Updates Need

#54
post #52
post #36

German here. A "Verschlimmbesserung" is something that makes one part better and another part worse. If it only makes things worse you don't need a German word for it, you can just call it worse. For things that were intended good, but ended up bad, there's an English idiom: the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

Not a German but Duden disagrees with you [0]: "etwas in der Absicht, es zu verbessern, schlechter machen". [0]: https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/verschlimmbessern

German here, this is the right definition, trying to improve something but ending up making it worse.

Re: Verschlimmbesserung: The Word Your Software Updates Need

#55
"It is called Verschlimmbesserung: an attempted improvement that only makes things worse."

Hmmm. So, the literal transation would be:

"Verschlimm" - worsen, negative, step back. "Besserung" - improvement, getting better than before.

So, I would translate it as "an effort to improve something but actually making it worse in the process".

There is an old video clip in german about this, actually; I think it was from Loriot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhj1xhv3rZI

Video quality is bad, there are probably better ones but it has english subtitles. The idea here is basically the guy tries to improve something, but in the end kind of causes the whole room to become devastated. That's kind of Verschlimmbesserung: meaning to do well, but failing to do so and causing more harm than good. (Also in the comments people connect this to Friedrich Merz; the guy is really losing popular support by the minute now. Just recently where he was unhappy how real people ask him critical questions.)

Re: Verschlimmbesserung: The Word Your Software Updates Need

#56

>attempted improvement that only makes things worse Unless I'm mistaken, Russian has a wonderful idiom for this: "bear job"

That actually also exists in German! Bärendienst, although it is not 100% the same as Verschlimmbesserung.

Google sez: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bear_and_the_Gardener#Idio...

> The story... relates how a solitary gardener encounters a lonely bear and they decide to become companions. One of the bear's duties is to keep the flies off his friend when he takes a nap. Unable to drive off a persistent fly, the bear seizes a paving stone to crush it and kills the gardener as well

> [..]

> The fable has given to the French language the idiom le pavé de l'ours (the bear's paving stone) and to German Bärendienst (a bear's service), both used for doing somebody or something a disservice or bad turn and sometimes for any ill-considered action with an unfortunate result. The Danish and Norwegian word bjørnetjeneste (bear-service) has similar meanings and the idiom also appears in other European languages.

Apparently the source of Russian's, too: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B5...

Re: Verschlimmbesserung: The Word Your Software Updates Need

#57
post #48
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that a Verschlimmbesserung stems from a genuine intent to improve something, even though it ultimately has the opposite effect.

I don't remember hearing or using it in this context. It's pretty rare that the goal was to make something worse and if the outcome is only bad, you can just call it bad, right? The word is only needed to communicate that there were good and bad outcomes.

A Verschlimmbesserung of the definition of Verschlimmbesserung.

Re: Verschlimmbesserung: The Word Your Software Updates Need

#58
post #36

German here. A "Verschlimmbesserung" is something that makes one part better and another part worse. If it only makes things worse you don't need a German word for it, you can just call it worse. For things that were intended good, but ended up bad, there's an English idiom: the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

> For things that were intended good, but ended up bad, there's an English idiom:

Better is the enemy of good.

Old Italian proverb: "il meglio è nemico del bene"

Shakespeare, King Lear: "Striving to better, oft we mar what's well".

Re: Verschlimmbesserung: The Word Your Software Updates Need

#59
post #9

It's actually a verb, "Verschlimmbesserung" is the substantivization. Base: verschlimmbessern Present conjugation: I verschlimmbesser[e], you verschlimmbesserst, he/she/it verschlimmbessert, we verschlimmbesser[e]n, (plural-)you verschlimmbessert, they verschlimmbesser[e]n Past/perfect: verschlimmbessert (e.g. "it got verschlimmbessert") Imperative: verschlimmbesser[e] (e.g. "don't verschlimmbesser that!") The [e] at…

Would there be a semantic difference between Verschlimmbesserung and Verbesserschlimmung?

無 (the question cannot be answered because it relies on unmet prerequisites)

"Verbesserschlimmung" isn't a word in active use & depending on how it (theoretically) were to enter use, its meaning might vary. It could enter usage with identical meaning, or it could mean the opposite: a change intended to worsen things that made them better. It's a bit like "inflammable".

(Also: this is why I pointed out it's not formed according to the agglutination rules that apply for concatenated nouns in German. For those, the meaning can be logically derived. This is a portmanteau, those don't quite follow rigid rules.)

Re: Verschlimmbesserung: The Word Your Software Updates Need

#60
post #36

German here. A "Verschlimmbesserung" is something that makes one part better and another part worse. If it only makes things worse you don't need a German word for it, you can just call it worse. For things that were intended good, but ended up bad, there's an English idiom: the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

Yeah, no, it means wanting to make things better but ending up making them worse.
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