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GUIs should be fully keyboard-driven

ckardaris.com

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Re: GUIs should be fully keyboard-driven

#231

Post by Telaneo »

jakzurr wrote: post #224
Telaneo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works poorly if you intend to localise your application. Great if you don't though.

(Speaking of menu/drop-downs with underlined characters for alt commands.) > This works poorly if you intend to localise your application. Great if you don't though. Sure that's true. But remember M$ allowed you to fairly easily edit those underlined-characters in, oh, for example Office 2002 and 2003. Even if you didn't have a lot of default underlines in your current language settings, it is still possible for some…

> Sure that's true. But remember M$ allowed you to fairly easily edit those underlined-characters in, oh, for example Office 2002 and 2003. Even if you didn't have a lot of default underlines in your current language settings, it is still possible for someone to add their own underline-shortcuts.

That's a feature that was hidden from me at least, but honestly, this is a good-ish solution to that problem.

I remember Office having the underlines, but they were inconsistent between the original English and my localised version (and I used both depending on the machine), which made them useless. That wasn't that big of an issue when all the normal keyboard shortcuts are also written out, but it would have been even less of a problem if I knew how to edit them.

Re: GUIs should be fully keyboard-driven

#232

Post by Telaneo »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #212
Telaneo wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't remember an example that didn't also include the shortcut written in full, but I might just be drawing a blank here. Care to give an example?

Wasn't easy to find! https://www.augenbit.de/wiki/images/5/57/Arbeitsplatz.png

Fair. I just remember them being inconsistent between the English and localised versions of Windows, and given I used both, that turned into a nothing-feature. Another comment mentioned you could edit the underlines in Office 2003, but I never knew that back in the day (or until today for that matter...).

Re: GUIs should be fully keyboard-driven

#233

Post by netbioserror »

rootedbox wrote: post #152

I work on ADA a lot for my company. Please put on some headphones, turn on the voice assistant of your OS, put on some blinders, and run your app or website… no mouse, just keyboard. 1. Democracy is about access; make sure everyone has access to your software. 2. The keyboard allows folks with disabilities and power users to fly through your website/app… that being said… the second a tab is off, the person with a dis…

Why not have WMs and DEs specialized for specific disability categories?

Re: GUIs should be fully keyboard-driven

#234

Post by shakna »

netbioserror wrote: post #233
rootedbox wrote: post #152

I work on ADA a lot for my company. Please put on some headphones, turn on the voice assistant of your OS, put on some blinders, and run your app or website… no mouse, just keyboard. 1. Democracy is about access; make sure everyone has access to your software. 2. The keyboard allows folks with disabilities and power users to fly through your website/app… that being said… the second a tab is off, the person with a dis…

Why not have WMs and DEs specialized for specific disability categories?

Both your window manager, and desktop env, already have a gigantic tree of accessibility systems built into it.

... And then your app turns into a canvas made in Electron.

Re: GUIs should be fully keyboard-driven

#236

Post by Sarkie »

rootedbox wrote: post #152

I work on ADA a lot for my company. Please put on some headphones, turn on the voice assistant of your OS, put on some blinders, and run your app or website… no mouse, just keyboard. 1. Democracy is about access; make sure everyone has access to your software. 2. The keyboard allows folks with disabilities and power users to fly through your website/app… that being said… the second a tab is off, the person with a dis…

I used to do loads of accessibility testing with my sites.

I was fired because I did too much once

Re: GUIs should be fully keyboard-driven

#238

Post by z3c0 »

stillpointlab wrote: post #229
rootedbox wrote: post #152

I work on ADA a lot for my company. Please put on some headphones, turn on the voice assistant of your OS, put on some blinders, and run your app or website… no mouse, just keyboard. 1. Democracy is about access; make sure everyone has access to your software. 2. The keyboard allows folks with disabilities and power users to fly through your website/app… that being said… the second a tab is off, the person with a dis…

I believe AI can be huge here. Things like ADA are often mechanical (adding the correct attributes to the most important page elements). It is the perfect work to audit and fix using agents. It is a business opportunity as well. I worked at a company that paid for an audit before LLMs. There is tremendous cost savings possible here. I also wonder if WebMCP will be the ultimate final incarnation of this.

Using AI to close gaps in accessibility is like adding treads to your vehicle because society is too lazy to pave roads.

Re: GUIs should be fully keyboard-driven

#239

Post by failbuffer »

pathartl wrote: post #15
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #12

Keyboard accessibility is one of those things that tends to get swept under the rug or forgotten about entirely alongside accessibility in general. The funny thing is that the former usually falls out of the latter. Part of the blame lands on the shoulders of popular UI frameworks (or in the case of those choosing to eschew use of such, the developers who made that choice). The older frameworks tend to make this fair…

Funny that you bring macOS, because for _decades_ I've struggled with navigating it without a keyboard. Windows components however, especially old ones, are incredibly accessible

My theory is that Mac was born with a mouse while Windows (and Windows apps) originally had to function on machines that might not have one. Thus, keyboard navigablity was prioritized, and that design sensibility stuck around longer.

Re: GUIs should be fully keyboard-driven

#240

Post by marcellus23 »

red_admiral wrote: post #215

It used to annoy me that on Windows I could press ENTER to close a message box, but on Mac I had to reach for the mouse.

Hm, you should generally be able to hit Return to close a message box on Mac. Or, more specifically, to activate the default action in a dialog (the button whose background is the tint color of the application). Spacebar activates the button that has the focus ring around it, which may or not be the default button, but you can use Tab to move the focus around.

At least, this is the way it's always been on OS X and later. I'm not sure about classic Mac OS.

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