Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

rte.ie

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–147 of 147 posts

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#141

Post by fsflover »

braiamp wrote: post #126
bji9jhff wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which options are outlawed and where?

Just look at anything that require certification and prohibit modification, PCI endpoints, FIPS, fuel pumps, aviation, medical software, gambling machines... most of those are outlawed because the law made it prohibitively expensive or cumbersome for someone to make an alternative even if the implementation is known

Despite all these, GNU/Linux phones exist and can be daily drivers for technical people. And you can download their schematics, too. Sent from my Librem 5.

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#142

Post by fsflover »

apatheticonion wrote: post #137
amelius wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot iPhone.

FR the iPhone is such a great missed opportunity. Imagine if someone developed a Linux based mobile OS that could run on it. Imagine if someone figured out that the USB-C port could do displayport out. Then imagine plugging that Linux iPhone into a usbc dock or lapdock (laptop with only a screen, keyboard and usbc input) and having a Linux desktop pop up. The MacBook Neo already proved that iPhone hardware is fast en…

Related discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47367568

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#143

Post by apatheticonion »

fsflover wrote: post #141
braiamp wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at anything that require certification and prohibit modification, PCI endpoints, FIPS, fuel pumps, aviation, medical software, gambling machines... most of those are outlawed because the law made it prohibitively expensive or cumbersome for someone to make an alternative even if the implementation is known

Despite all these, GNU/Linux phones exist and can be daily drivers for technical people. And you can download their schematics, too. Sent from my Librem 5.

I am on that team and REALLY want it to be the case - but GNU/LInux devices are usually a significantly worse hardware experience than their walled garden cousins.

For example, there is literally no laptop on Earth as nice as the MacBook Pro. Extremely long battery life, insane CPU & GPU performance, unmatched trackpad - but it runs MacOS. Unless you're a professional video editor, the laptop is largely relegated to being a thin client for a Linux machine you SSH into (or spawn a non hardware accelerated VM and demolish performance / power).

How long would it take Apple to develop Linux drivers (even as binary blobs like nvidia)? Probably a couple of weekends. Why don't they? Because walled garden.

The MacBook is lucky in that it's a high profile device so we see projects like Asahi working at it - but again, without good documentation and despite the incredible progress, the Asahi team have spent years and created an alternative for older Apple hardware that still isn't daily drivable (not throwing shade at the project, it's incredible and I am dying to use Linux on my MacBook).

But what about devices with less enthusiastic communities? Pixel 8? Samsung TV? Asus Router? Fitbit Air? D-Link portable 5g modem? My smart blinds?

These devices have no drivers, locked bootloaders, and no community to spend years reverse engineering hardware (that will be obsolete by the time OSS drivers are developed).

I want to see my high end consumer hardware running OSS and until regulators step in to force the "right to repair software" - I don't see that happening and it breaks my heart.

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#144

Post by eimrine »

dewey wrote: post #117
eimrine wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you should, pal! You should not buy any proprietary shite to stop investing into even more invasive proprietary antiuseful technologies. But you use to not do that, so we both are going to experience suffering. Thank you for being the bad actor for me.

Don't blame the user for a fault of the market and regulation. In the real world you'll always only ever see the duopoly of Android / iOS for phones for example. This can be government apps, parking apps, apps for your utilities etc. so it's not like there's an easy choice to opt-out of that. It's not much different for laptops (Will still have some non-free blob in them for some driver), TVs, kitchen appliances.

Why not to blame the "real world" inhabitants which have chosen to be my enemies? I blame ones only because I can not eliminate them now. I consider their worldview as being not deeper than a pig puddle, because their life is just pulling the strap. Are there any other ways to demonstrate their emptyness to some external observers?

There is no escape from duopoly if you need banks for 24/7 - get rid of that need now or the slippery slope of the technofeudalist slavery will suck you all even deeper into never wanted outcomes.

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#145

Post by fsflover »

apatheticonion wrote: post #143
fsflover wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite all these, GNU/Linux phones exist and can be daily drivers for technical people. And you can download their schematics, too. Sent from my Librem 5.

I am on that team and REALLY want it to be the case - but GNU/LInux devices are usually a significantly worse hardware experience than their walled garden cousins. For example, there is literally no laptop on Earth as nice as the MacBook Pro. Extremely long battery life, insane CPU & GPU performance, unmatched trackpad - but it runs MacOS. Unless you're a professional video editor, the laptop is largely relegated to…

Everything you said is true, which is why supporting alternatives that are open by design is essential. Even if they are have less powerful hardware.

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#146

Post by celiacFun »

jonkoops wrote: post #116
apatheticonion wrote: post #95

I would like this to be extended to software. If I buy an Android phone, I should be able to maintain/update the operating system. If I buy a MacBook, I should be able to maintain or change the operating system. If I buy a TV, smart watch, microwave - I should be able to maintain their software. The only thing prohibiting this is the fact that drivers are obfuscated and/or hardware schematics sufficient to produce dr…

It really should be required for manufacturers to publish full details about how the hardware works so that alternative software can be developed. I'd wholly support that.

They do though. There are hundreds of pages of specs you can read about it if you want to.

Re: New EU-wide product repair rules come into force

#147

Post by apatheticonion »

celiacFun wrote: post #146
jonkoops wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really should be required for manufacturers to publish full details about how the hardware works so that alternative software can be developed. I'd wholly support that.

They do though. There are hundreds of pages of specs you can read about it if you want to.

Not true.

Apple, for instance, does not provide low level device documentation sufficient for creating open source drivers - for instance - publishing documentation on the Apple GPU and coprocessor would have reduced the development effort of the Asahi GPU driver by 90%.

If Apple was compelled to release low level documentation for their Apple Silicon hardware (audio, usb, gpu, power management, etc) - Linux would have been running on Apple hardware long ago.

Post reply on HN